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Andy, after a very intense relationship with the genus "h**o sapiens" over a period of nearly 5 decennia, I don't consider your statement necessarily complimentary to chimps. I'd rather be a bonobo. For those unfamiliar with this species of primate, they're well worth a "google"!
Bill <blue-eyes@nospam.buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed May 21 13:19:21 2003
New research has revealed that chimpanzees are so close to mankind that they should be reclassified as practically human. Whilst there is overwhelming evidence of this in the White House, in the fortrhcoming Noo Democracy in Iraq (Ahem!), maybe some of our hirsute cousins may wish to stand as candidates in the (Splutter!) forthcoming 'elections'
Andy Melia <>
4 legs good, 2 legs bad, Brave New Bonnieville, Burbo, Wed May 21 08:11:30 2003
JJ your last posting. If I were a rich man.... daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum; all day long, as the song goes, I'd biddy biddy bum....if I were a wealthy man! I certainly wouldn't be recommending joint venture investments with el commandante in Venezuela. Gor blimey days indeed! Is there a perfidious fiddler on the roof of H.M.Embassy in Caracas ?
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Wed May 21 03:06:41 2003
Dear M et al, A further view on Venezuela and uncomfortable evidence of perfidious someone or other can be found at http://buscador.eluniversal.com/eudcontent/viewArticle.do;jsessionid=buscador.eluniversal.com-ca%3A3eca825e%3Ae080212bb08f447e?articleId=1291260. A free translation is available at http://www.freetranslation.com/ for gist getting only, natch. Adiosito!
jj <etc>
etc, etc, and May God May Have Mercy, Blimey Days!!, Tue May 20 20:47:19 2003
J.J., As I write, the Country next door do you is celebrating their independence. Here in Toronto we have an enormous number of immigrants from Guyana. They are a down - to - Earth type of people, most of whom grew up under the British system before the British were either kicked out of that country or withdrew amicably. Like Venezuela, Guyana has gone from up to down. My Guyanese friends lament the fact that things were fine when the country was "British Guyana". Now, the crime rate is high and everybody is broke. Two years ago we had the Prime Minister of Guyana here in Canada as a guest. He attended the raising of the Guyana flag at the Independence Day ceremony here in Toronto. I was detailed by the police to ensure this man's safety while here. In his speech, he had the audacity to abuse his welcome to Canada by blaming the woes of his country on the British. DeGaulle put his foot in his mouth while here in Canada a few years ago with his infamous "Vive Quebec Libre" speech. I guess he just plain forgot who saved his neck from the Nazis during WW11. If the Prime minister of Guyana or the chief idiot from Venezuela want to rant they should post what they have to say on the CCC. Anyway, carry on ol' chap.
ffrank <I don't want any more spam from Nigeria>
Ontario, , Canada, Tue May 20 02:31:15 2003
Hello, im Vanessa 15years old and iam searching for my dad, all informations that i have are in my homepage. Please take a minute and read it, maybe you can help me! Here is my homepage: http://www.freehomepage.de/members/vanessafreier
Vanessa <hope_f_germany@yahoo.de>
germany, germany, germany, Mon May 19 15:29:15 2003
Dear Deputy Fuehrer, If your naturally burgeoning amiability is so easily derailed by a perception so fatally flawed, it's easy to see why you're stuck at second string. Try "amiable" again. It will come to you more readily and you'll settle in right quick, I'll be bound!
jj <etc>
etc, etc, & God Bless, Mon May 19 00:48:59 2003
See, children, what the Colombian nose-candy does to you....P JUST SAY NO!!
The Deputy-Fuhrer <>
, , , Sun May 18 23:14:38 2003
Dear Miquiti-iquiti-etcetriciti, old chap or lass as applicabilicitable, or occupant: The Venezuelan situation continues to give substantial cause for alarm as: troop supported tractor-borne operatives are ploughing up productive farmland, crops included, and forcing owners to sell for a song or fourteen and six, whichever is the lesser, to generals and ministers, running dogs of the revolution et a few al; since 119 days ago, no foreign exchange has been available for industry thus ensuring the demise of hundreds of chicken farms - for lack of essential vitmin food additives - and a serious shortage of the staple chicken, not to speak of thousands more of unemployed; many more of the remaining factories have had to close for similar reasons - over 7000 since the regime came to power. This is being countered by imports by militarily approved agents (spelling huge corruption) of certain governmentally deemed essential stuff, all via the good and entirely superfluous offices of Alimport, a Cuban agency that takes its slice of the foreign exchange unavailable to regular guys. That country now owes over $200,000,000 in unpaid oil import bils. We have this week remitted more miilions for payment of goods from them and in part(!!) coverage of the doctor, sports and other generously proffered services we get. Oddball brands of chicken are beginning to show, notably from Brazil, who kindly have extended one thousand million dollars in credit lines, partly to pay for jet fighter training aircraft and 4000 buses that our own stifled factories could easily have made but can no longer manufacture .... for lack of currency to import certain components. As we very speak, the Man is on telly, praising the joint efforts of 'military and civilian' groups - his idea being to return to a civilian-military collaborative society (but with with all sorts of cooperatives) as per his perception of the mid-19C setup of Ezequiel Zamora (beGoogleable) would have been had he survived.----------- This goes hand in hand with inter alia, objections to American interference anytime anywhere, very especially in the founding of Panama, a nation celebrating its centenary this year but wrenched through yanqui interference from its rightful cradle, being the New Granadian Republic of Colombia. Had it not been for the damned Yanquis. ------- Yes, it's true that the US ambassador had a jolly get together at his house recently and some local comedian, whose show is well known country wide, made derogatory comments about the pres. And it's true that the ambassador did put forward some unfortunately true figures about journalists atacked and killed and the total lack of any onvestigative follow up. He apologised for the comendian but not his own (presumably DC- approved) speech. Government upset has been tempered somewhat by observations os the Cuban ambassador's now obvious personal partaking in the rape of the nation, beginning with his co-commanding a part of the operation to disarm the Metro police, thus to reduce arms on the street, that sometime might be used against the regime. Not unnaturally, this has simply expanded crminal activity. I shan't get into details about a longstandin European NGO's report on over 200 oncidents of police torture since 2000. --------- The new TV-regulation law to protect children is well advanced: it forbids any violence or reports during day hours. At all at all. No reports of war, live crime scene coverage or indeed anything that might upset the young. The 'might upset' decision is in the regime's watchdog agency's hands. It, like the international airport, vegatable distribution and a host of non-military functions, including the (non)distribution of foreign exchange, is in the hands of military experts (Holy Lord!). The exchange control man is famous for several reasons, two being his exhorations to the populace for appeal to the Godhead (he's an evengelical) and the statement that, were the currency to be released from the exchange control authority, it would actually trade about 7% below it's artificial but unrealisable official rate, set, one would have thoght, to protect it, though in the light of the Holy captain's remarks this week, only from itself.------- As usual, Miquiti-iquiti-etcetriciti, there's lots more but Claire has her limit and, I am sure, TCC'ers do too. I can say one thing though, while we wait at our very own 'last chance saloon', being the revocatory referendum, the Pres has said he ain't goin' anyplace because it just rebels, no more no less. Some democrat: his own party was the one that put the ruddy thing in the constitution to begin with. So despite very pliant the Supreme Court's declaration that petition signatures collected to date for the referendum are valid, there is less than full confidence that he'll let it go forward. That could trigger a military announcement that he'd have to go for breaking (his own handmade) constitution. For this reason, no-one is surprised that lotsa military men of all stripes are suddenly rich as Croesus. Such reports, of course, would be forbidden under the new law, as 'possibly directed at the stability of the government' - and so subject to censorship. Strictly speaking, any live broadcasts, even a football match with some perceivedly dreadful foul potential could be pulled at the last minute. To protect Venezuelan children, you understand.
jj <etc>
etc, etc, And God Bless, Sun May 18 22:07:27 2003
JJ: As the worshipful's plenipotentiary at Caracas perhaps, for a small consular fee of course, you could prevail upon your colleague, US Ambassador Shapiro, to keep Micky mcmcmcmcmcmetc abreast of the Venezuelan situ, by including his name on the invitation list to the next US Embassy happy hour of entertaining micky taking to your Commandante of his hair.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Sat May 17 17:26:49 2003
I'll have to say that mayor blah blah blah....... anyway, like the 'burbo baggins', gutted i didn;'t think of it myself - lets have more jj posts - i'm not quite abreast of the venezuala situ...
micky McMickmicllassmcmcmcmmmmcmmmmcmcmcmcmcmcmcmcmcmcmmcmcmcmccmcscotmcscotmchamishmt??? <>
, , , Sat May 17 04:10:17 2003
Hey Bill the critic, please address your complaints to the Mayor's office. The post code for Burbo is QQQQ FU2
FUHRER <>
, , Sunning in Sicily, Sat May 17 03:40:59 2003
Willem: Have tried your addie several times previously to no avail but have replied today again. Beste JJ
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Fri May 16 16:19:03 2003
"No such position exists"??!! Listen, the Worshipful Mayor pays my salary, every month, without fail, by direct debit, into the Burbo Bank Bank.
Burbo Baggins <>
PR Department, Burbo Bank, , Fri May 16 14:53:48 2003
Dear Elmer and Dubious Companion, Your stuff there brings to mind a couple of statements heard over time, namely, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and dispel all doubt," & "Resorting to repulsive language is no more than an admission of a poor command of English." (My RAF squadron commander, decorated twice for shooting down Me 109's, and definitely not a man to mince words) Additionally, I would entirely dispute your knowledge of 'fact' and the use, in your second post, of the term, "I think". Had you taken time to review the Burbo Chronicles as herein set forth, you would have seen the steady accretion of solid evidence of many things whose existence had heretofore been dismissed by lesser mortals in 'know for a fact' terms. And furtherly to the point, not only is there a Mayor whose worshipfullness, though possibly something of a moving target, has never been challenged in open court, but also an offshore agency manager or generic 'foreign minister' whose untiring travail has been widely bruited. They say. So, I trust you wear a capacious jumper of adequate capacity. Whatever anyway, Elmer old fellow: I suspect you got into a carriage that left the station later than mine. Wait a little while and things will clear up a tad and meanwhile, never fall into the trap of posting on TCC after a noggin. Best An' All!
jj <etc>
etc, etc, And God Bless, Fri May 16 14:22:28 2003
The man is a genius! "I know for a fact that no such position exists" Gosh, none of us knew that. Got any more gems to impress us with? Nice use of language, by the way. Nice to see the list can welcome one so erudite. Methinks you have been stroking the one-eyed whale a little TOO frequently, my friend.
Encyclopaedia Britannica <compiler@chicago.edu>
, The Windy City, Good Ole U.S.A., Fri May 16 12:29:43 2003
what's this garbage about the "worshipful mayor of burbo"?? I know for a fact that no such position exists. You must be a right self-important t**t and I really think you talk out of your a**e.
bill's one eyed whale <>
, , , Fri May 16 11:01:37 2003
The rain in Burbo falls mainly on the Turbo.
(Worshipful wet) Mayor <>
, , , Fri May 16 09:48:58 2003
Picture this--------- Our blue eyed billy with wally the one eyed whale in one hand, pecking away at the keyboard with the other.His nonstop brash motor mouth filled with his left foot ,searching, searching so hard to deflect his exposure as a show off motor mouth trying so hard to impress us all. Shame billy shame.
Elmer Fudd <Loonytune@daffyduck>
, , Netherlands, Fri May 16 00:45:36 2003
so that's what you do with your sitters!
sittersanonymous <lap@up.org>
crosby, .., .., Thu May 15 13:41:47 2003
Barb ~ Will do nearer the time ~ providing I get a sitter sorted !
babs <>
Southport, , , Wed May 14 17:44:05 2003
Babs,let me know what time you will be arriving at the Brooke,and I will meet you outside( I don't like walking into pubs on my own !) Barb
Nanna BarbAKA Babs <Nanna-barb@yahoo,com>
Crosby, Liverpool, England, Tue May 13 00:59:22 2003
please keep offffff muguuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
guyman <guyman@mugu.com>
dekon, lome, togo, Sun May 11 20:28:57 2003
Sorry about that, must have clicked on (or banged my head on) an old post or something!
Beth <>
, , , Sun May 11 10:53:00 2003
Beth ~ have you seen him or summat? Ta Andy ~ will get crackin on sortin a sitter out.
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sun May 11 10:14:23 2003
Babs, Brooke 3 is on Saturday 28th June. Arrive early to get a seat.
Andy Melia <>
da Brooke, , , Sun May 11 08:06:19 2003
Lord St North
chad <>
, Brum, , Sat May 10 19:58:42 2003
Chad - Tom Handley!! his parents had the post office on Lord Street West or North or South or something - what ever happened to Nigel Lee? Anyone know?
Beth <>
, , Southport, Sat May 10 18:59:43 2003
Would the mayor please remind us the date of the next Brokke Reunion ? Can't be too far off now.
Babs <>
Southport ~ near Brooke Road, , , Sat May 10 10:02:52 2003
The FUHRER is not racist, He has two coloured tellys at home. If you are not a Jew you must be a Gentile. If you do not possess the required features (as established by the Reich) you are therefore an Ethnic. If you are British, you should never refer to your heritage as being European. That just happens to be a derogatory statement. If you are English, say so, otherwise you might be taken for an "Ethnic". ie from a country like Czechoslovethnica. If you have cravings for Bavarian slices you have the right pedigree.
Liebe Fuhrer <yourfuhrer@nospamhotmail.com>
, In the mountain retreat, , Sat May 10 02:30:17 2003
ROTFLMAO again!!! I'm glad someone appreciates my oeuvre so much that (s)he needs to repeat them weeks after they were written. Sad git...pBTW anyone know the difference between ethnic slurs and racist abuse. Answers on a postcard to....whatever
Bill <>
Amsterdam, , , Fri May 9 23:29:49 2003
Das ist zehr gut. Ze Umlauts I mean. Ze SCHMOKENSTACKENGEPUFFINMILLHAUS arbeitmacher zat made mein computer ist forgetten ze umlaut key. Eider zat ur zey zum essen ze Bavarian slice from Munchen unt some filling ze umlaut key gerstucken.
Liebe Fuhrer <yourfuhrer@nospamhotmail.com>
UBERALLES, , , Fri May 9 03:56:13 2003
Below are the comments of a supposedly liberal bleeding heart social worker - note the racial explicit terms that he uses. Would you as, say a black man, an asian man or a visible minority trust your social welfare to a loud mouthed bigot like this piece of human dog p*o. I have just proved to the world, blue eyed billy, what a fraud you really are.... go ahead.... babble on Billys words taken from this mail list : "Do you really think that in this small coerner of cyberspace we care what towel-heads and diegos do to each other in their own countries. Rowlocks! Now get in the program, or get off the ship, 'cos this space is a joke area, and I haven't done much laughing recently. Bill"
the old masterbator from the far away hills he jerked off the daisys and the daffodills <w****r>
Burbank, L.A., Bushbville, Fri May 9 01:01:56 2003
LOVELY DAY TODAY.....p a href="http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/03316.html" img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/default_both/language/www/global/stations/03316.gif" alt="Click for Crosby, United Kingdom Forecast" height=60 width=468/a
The Weatherman <>
, , , Thu May 8 18:21:51 2003
Lieber Führer, "SWARTZER"? PDeins, Heinrich.
Der Bub' <Himm@wieder.OKW>
Berchtesgarten-le-Sands, birthplace von der Bayerischer Slice, .., Über The Whole Caboodle, Thu May 8 13:51:50 2003
No, your FUHRER is not illiterate, they are!
FUHRER <FUHRER>
FUHRER, , , Thu May 8 03:58:49 2003
The FUHRER is having the same problem with spam. He advises all to take the necessary precautions about posting your addresses. Those e-mail address harvesters from NIGERIA are the biggest nuisance. Your FUHRER has resorted to racial slurs and political uncorrectness of the strongest kind but being the backward illerate b******* that they are, their scam still prevails. RAUS, DU SWARTZER SCHWEIN.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@nospamhotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu May 8 03:56:37 2003
The bounders are farming our website. I gave an alternate e-mail addie a few days ago, and since then I've have 20 e-mails from African Bankers, sons, wives and daughters of vanquished dictators, offering me the chance to make millions. From now on, I'll use the "nospam trick" and I advise others to do so. How are you all?
Bill <blue-eyes@nospam.buddhist.nl>
, Amsterdam, , Thu May 8 00:42:52 2003
Pre-historic footprints discovererd on Burbo! Evidence of Ramses?? To listen, go to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagainflash.shtml scroll to "pre-historic footprints under the sand" and click listen.
Andy Melia <>
Burbo Archeology Department, , , Wed May 7 16:28:38 2003
keep offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
mugu <guyman@obyno.com>
lome, niger, Nigeria, Mon May 5 23:06:26 2003
keep offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
mugu <guyman@obyno.com>
lome, niger, Nigeria, Mon May 5 23:04:08 2003
Awwwwww thanks Bill ~ your a pal. The Pompous A*s has now apologised and hopes he hasn't ruined our friendship. Anyway there is a possibility that of me doing Toronto around the 3rd week in August ~ can't say deffo yet.
babs <still@livehere.com>
Southport, Near Crosby, , Sat May 3 12:19:25 2003
Burbo's Most Wanted! After a period of indecision The Ace of Spades in Burbo's Most Wanted has finally been "liberated". pI refer, of course, to the delectable Satterthwaites Bavarian Slice which has just been demolished with little resistance and (hopefully) minor collatoral damage.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
I can resist everything except temptation, Burbo, , Fri May 2 16:00:11 2003
babs, wanna mail me about it? If he's doing it via e-mail, maybe I can help...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, , , Thu May 1 20:03:35 2003
Thanks for asking Bill. Nothing much to anyone else but very hurtful for me. Some pompous a*s decided he had the right to hurl personal insults via my mailbox. Too much amidst all the other depressing stuff going on for me right now.
babs <>
Southport, , , Thu May 1 16:55:27 2003
Andy, Re the Tesco site. Brendan Barber shares the ex-St. Mary's limelight with another SMOB by the name of Michael Cardwell. So go back to the site and type in the name and VOILA! St. Mary's has indeed produced another famous author (with a big brain). I believe in the Barber case, he, by his own admission, came with a big mouth instead. Likely had the brains knocked out by Joe Rigby.
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, , Toronto, city of multi-culture, Thu May 1 01:37:44 2003
Has Claire de-activated HTML capabilities altogether for the site? I think we should be told.
Bill <>
, , , Wed Apr 30 23:36:56 2003
Queen's Birthday celebrations were great fun, despite a downpour! Bought nice Sony wireless headphones for 6 quid!!!PJohn, if you have trouble mailing to blue-eyes, you can use this addie. I don't check it as often as I do b.e., but at least every 2-3 days.PWhat happened, Babs?
Bill <dancat@softhome.net>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 30 23:30:44 2003
I'm moving back home ~ too many pompous a***s in Southport.
Babs <>
Southport, , , Wed Apr 30 20:26:39 2003
Forget the birthday; take comfort and celebrate the suicide instead, 10 days later.
Dacre <.>
, , , Wed Apr 30 16:12:39 2003
Just go to www.tes.co.uk and type Brendan Barber into the search box. Now then, Fred Slade. He was hillarious. Anyone unfortunate enough to be within 12 paces of his bellowing singing when we were dragged to Church will, like me, suffer from permanent hearing problems. Pardon? What was that? Sorry??
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
The broad highway of life on Burbo, , , Wed Apr 30 07:34:04 2003
Never mind your Queen's birthday. You failed to remember April 20, The birthday of the FUHRER.
FUHRER <>
, , , Wed Apr 30 03:43:48 2003
Sod it. I've lost the art of html!P I think I'll just go off and drown my sorrows. It's the Queen's Birthday, and the whole population of the Netherlands goes insane...Someone else try
Bill <>
, , , Tue Apr 29 23:43:50 2003
a href="http://www.tes.co.uk/search/search_display.asp?section=Archive&sub_section=Friday&id=378417&Type=0"http://www.tes.co.uk/search/search_display.asp?section=Archive&sub_section=Friday&id=378417&Type=0/ a
Bill <>
, , , Tue Apr 29 23:41:50 2003
Good article, Pat, although I don't share Brendan's enthusiasm for Fred Slade. It's a fine obit for Riggers though.PFor those who don't want to search the whole TES site for the article, here's the url:Pa href="http://www.tes.co.uk/search/search_display.asp?section=Archive&sub_section=Friday&id=378417&Type=0"http://www.tes.co.uk/search/search_display.asp?section=Archive&sub_section=Friday&id=378417&Type=0/ aPI'll be following his career closely ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 29 23:40:46 2003
Brendan Barber in TES this week mentioned Mr Rigby (deceased) and Mr Slade (music)at St Mary's - good thing about this column is u can scroll back 6 months - I see Amsterdam Bill did know Tom Handley - is Toronto GTG on now that WHO has cleared it of SARS? - where's Babs/Petepsy? Pat
chad <patatukonline.co.uk>
Southport, B'ham, UK, Tue Apr 29 22:41:11 2003
Must be inspired by the Bridge Road location, á la (Brighton-le)SandsBistro/Caf'! Or not? Can't wait to see what your 'creative healthy' will entail! Looking forward to it all. I shall mark it for early visit next time outa Venezuela. Trusting fancy creative tipples will be on hand for the forgetful and undecided. Remember too to serve the magic ingredient bruited about by the mayor whereby TCC's diversity of posters is maintained.

...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Apr 28 19:56:51 2003


Hello there.Just to let you know,that SANDSBISTRO/CAFE,will shortly be opening.Serving healthy creative food.From 10 am till late.We also operate a bring your own drinks policy for a small corkage charge Our address is 22 BRIDGE ROAD BLUNDELLSANDS
garyshields <garyshields2002@hotmail.com>
crosby, liverpool, england, Mon Apr 28 17:05:27 2003
Hello there.Just to let you know,that SANDSBISTRO/CAFE,will shortly be opening.Serving healthy creative food.From 10 am till late.We also operate a bring your own drinks policy for a small corkage charge Our address is 22 BRIDGE ROAD BLUNDELLSANDS
garyshields <garyshields2002@hotmail.com>
crosby, liverpool, england, Mon Apr 28 17:05:01 2003
URGENT message from the Mayor's office.

In the BBC vote on Capital of Culture, Liverpool has lost the lead and is now LAGGING BEHIND NEWCASTLE!

Today is your last chance to vote for Liverpool, before the result is announced at 10.30pm tonight (Monday).

You can vote for Liverpool by dialling 0901 190 3040 and pressing '4' for Liverpool when prompted or online via www.bbc.co.uk/capitalofculture
Andy Melia <>
Burbo or Geordie?, Your choice, , Mon Apr 28 16:27:57 2003


tonirok's: as you move into your teens and read more, you will get a truer perspective.
lateteens <><>>
<>, .., crosby, Mon Apr 28 02:44:01 2003
tonirok's: as you move into your teens and read more, you will get a truer perspective.
lateteens <><>>
<>, .., crosby, Mon Apr 28 02:42:34 2003
Never seen such boring crap in all my life
Tonirok's <tr@toiletrolls.com>
, Rockingham, , Sun Apr 27 17:16:26 2003
Umm Qasr, Umm Qasr, that's how it goes, Umm Qasr, Umm Qasr, everyone knows, They all suppose what they want to suppose, When they say Umm Qasr!
Iraqi Information Boy <>
, , , Sat Apr 26 13:09:16 2003
The FUHRER is monitoring all postings. I guess that our Mayor has acknowledged my presence by referring to a "NAZI dictator". I hereby decree that Burbo shall be spared. Just remember that the greatest philosopher of all time is ...............THE FUHRER. (Z. H.)
Blue eyed FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Sat Apr 26 04:22:42 2003
Gee, Anthony, What makes you feel there's mileage in this dementia bilitica praecox style? Gratuitously offensive and anonymous are two qualities liable to emasculate the oomph of a post. Whatever. It seems you're married to your approach but if you are still interested, my 'phone numbers rae on this guestbook page in a recent post. Call me: I promise not to belch audibly.

Dear Bill, I am down to jokes from Galicia, in North West Spain, our local equivalent of Irish ones: When a British spy, after shootouts and fast women galore, opted for week off in a quiet Galician inn, he arrived and asked for his reservation, "And what would the name be sir?" asked the local lad. Proffering a hand, our man said, "Bond; - James Bond." Spluttering for a moment, the Galician took the proffered hand saying, "Nolo; - Ma-Nolo". If that falls flat, ask the one who does your most confidential Spanish translations about it.

....& God bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Fri Apr 25 15:10:29 2003


I cannot help be impressed by this Channel. I mean we have posts from Nazi dictators, esteemed football managers, Mayors, Noo world order exponents, and now famous Greek philosphers. Must be something in the (Crosby) water.
Andy Melia <>
laughing all the way to the Burbo Bank, , , Fri Apr 25 14:09:33 2003
Remember what Socrates said: What's the point in arguing over something that doesn't make a perceptible difference to your day? The testosterone is choking, as the big boys get mad over stuff that doesn't affect them getting out of bed, making a cup of tea, going to the shops, watching the match... Good one. (JJ lives there, so it does affect his day, but my point would be that he's not arguing over what's happening, but stating the facts as he sees them in situ).
Plato <>
, , , Fri Apr 25 09:10:49 2003
Just a quick tip for everyone - the steak pies in Satterthwaites are actually better than the steak 'and potato' pies - and at just 3p more, you'd be silly not to heed this advice. Cheerio.
big dave <>
crosby, , , Fri Apr 25 09:08:30 2003
You know you're winning when they start ganging-up on you...

Remember Socrates? Logic, deduction and EVIDENCE... I can't find any one of these anywhere in the posts of jj (or his flatlander echo) [dear reader, please look them over again, and check for yourself!] - just a belch of unsupported, unsupportable assertions, olympian generalizations and creaking cart-before-horse conclusions, rather pompously served up as actualité...

Remember this - mere PROXIMITY does not equate to PERCEPTIVITY... Otherwise every New Yorker would be chanting a mantra slightly more grown-up than "it was mad muslim terrorists who hate our freedom."

Judged by the frequency and proxility of the internet-missives coming our way from "America's backyard", their author can't get out that often... No doubt he watched the whole coup/"non-coup" on "telly" - so as far as I'm concerned he wasn't "there", no more than I was. If he had really "been there" he'd be telling us about his first-hand EXPERIENCES, not half-baked, Caracas coffee-house conspiracies.

I prefer the analysis of trained journalists of integrity, with the professional experience and political nouse to recognize and report what THEY SEE - the organized relentless de-stabilization of a democratically-elected government, leading to a botched coup...[a near carbon-copy of Chile 1973]. And it ain't over yet....
Anthony Rockingham <>
Crosby, , , Fri Apr 25 01:46:28 2003


Coincidence, John? I think not??? ;)
Bill <>
, , , Thu Apr 24 21:40:01 2003
Jeez, you really don't get it do you Anthony, or Malcolm or whoever it is you are today. John Kelly's story is based on LIVING IN CARACAS!!! Not from some second- or third-hand source of disinformation. And the most important element, far more important that any perceived truth or falsehood is that JOHN KELLY SPENT MOST OF HIS CHILDHOOD LIVING ON BROWNMOOR LANE, CROSBY, LIVERPOOL 23, and that, my dear d'ick-wit, is the only reason we take his meditations even vaguely seriously.

Because, semi-literate that you seem to be, and stubborn to the core, if you look at the top left-hand page of this web site, you will see the words "Crosby" and "Channel".

John is Crosby's correspondent in down town Caracas, and we will believe him at all times, because he has no agenda, hidden or otherwise. And even if he does, who cares. Do you really think that in this small coerner of cyberspace we care what towel-heads and diegos do to each other in their own countries. Rowlocks! Now get in the program, or get off the ship, 'cos this space is a joke area, and I haven't done much laughing recently.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 24 21:38:38 2003


Dear Anthony, If anyone's falling for something, it ain't I. None of my stuff is taken from the reports doled out by interested parties of any hue. The "authority" you refer us to, Mr. Blum, has made a career of tilting at the CIA. I haven't. Neither do I have an axe to grind in that regard. This type of generalised rubbish is rife: there is a Yale professor, Amy something or other, who has made a whole career out of learned declarations about race hatred. Guess what's to blame for the Venezuelan problem in her, now well known, book on racial animosity? Race hatred. that's what. So which American writer with hugely vested interests is right? Amy or your Mr. Blum? In which vein, why shouldn't the guy on the spot in Venezuela who, contrary to your source, went through last year's entire sequence of events on the spot in Caracas, have something worthwhile to add? And why would you try to disqualify that? Looking at your reading list as gathered from your latest referral, along with your terminology, you have an axe to grind too. What do you or your posting gain by calling me names? How is the level of engagement improved by an approach, seemingly gauged to provoke emotive response rather than to add something? How far are we going to get if the road is wet with vitriol? I do see that you take up not a single point I mention and your referral picks out bits and pieces to bolster a generic case that his livlihood depends on. Do you not feel that you may be on shaky ground there? Besides, I have never tried it, but there are those who quite fancy boiled frog, mon vieux. Maybe we could meet sometime for a coffee, at that shop where they sell the larger tents?

...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Thu Apr 24 21:36:15 2003


or...

http://www.counterpunch.org/reilly0415.html

looks like our Venezuelan boiling frog has fallen for the usual CIA "false flag" operation. Why!! - the gunmen even wore tee-shirts with el presidentes face on them - so therefore Chavez ordered the killings...

Goodnight children, Uncle Sam's going to read you a nice bedtime story...
Anthony Rockingham <>
, , , Thu Apr 24 21:01:23 2003


YAWN...

None of that makes any sense....

For a better take on the Venezuelan coup...

http://www.counterpunch.org/blum0414.html

The Yanks have a glorious track record on this kind of thing, remember??
Anthony Rockingham <>
, , , Thu Apr 24 20:48:19 2003


Part II:

As for websites, you may also try http://www.vheadline.com/main.asp since it's in English and written locally. There is a constitutional option of a revocatory referendum of the presidential mandate available and that could be put in train on 19th August. The required signatures have been collected and even very the supreme court, sensitive as it is to every whiff from the governemnt, has said they are valid. The government party, having agreed to it all now claims all manner of misdeeds, - no matter that the court's finding settled the matter - and wants each signature examined and proven to be original and not a copy taken from alleged bank account registries. At this stage, no one can be sure that the referendum, until recently the regime's preferred option to solve the crisis, will ever take place. On Sunday, the president said that, with everything going so well, he expects to rule until the yaer 2021, some 9 years longer than any law would normally allow. Heigh ho!

In short, there is an unpopular communist takeover á la Cubana underway and foreign ignorance of facts on the ground doesn't help. I say facts because, as I have learned over time, truth is a moving target. Facts are less so and each builds his own truth on facts in the actual sequence and each will arrive at his conclusion, depending on his cultural biases - no-one is free of them - at the outset.

The weather is great and the chicharras are in full song, meaning that the rains are only a couple of weeks away, all good news since we've had four years of relative drought and reservoirs are way down. Caracas has had water rationing now for several months. the price of tennis balls is up too, with imports restricted owing to there being no foreign exchange available for the last 3 months.

...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Apr 23 22:04:45 2003


Dear Babs, I presume you mean beyond what I've posted on TCC? The day to day stuff can be seen on the English language options under 'eluniversal.com', English option at top right. That is a major Caracas daily. The challenge for 'new readers' is the complexity and the hisorical penumbra in which all the stuff is happening. Here on TCC for instance, we have seen an insistence on there having been a coup d'état last April, for instance, an insistance that I feel more is culturally based than otherly. The foreign reporters came and looked and, without much local consultation, having seen one government, then another and a few uniforms, loftily declared 'coup' and took the next plane out to and filed stories from 'our correspondent on the spot'. The massive support for the peaceful removal of the president, a crowd of over 750,000 marching downtown, was never given any weight and the sequence of events wasn't either, namely: a protest of mums and dads and students and aunties and so forth, rigourously unarmed, marched downtown to demand the presidential resignation for a series of dreadful abuses that took him way beyond any legitimacy he may have claimed by right of an election four and a half years ago. The president, seeing this, removed all TV coverage on local channels by ordering a previously taped 'chain' broadcast(that monopolises all non-cable channels), thereby effectively preventing any live coverage of the killings that then began as previously sited sharpshooters fired at will on the crowd. To this day, there has been no truth commission formed to get to the bottom of it all, 'all' being nineteen dead and over 100 wounded. Weeks later, the regime suddenly blamed the Metro police for the dead, to everyone's amazement. Now, we don't get so easily amazed. Whatever: while all this was underway, the president also called out the armed forces and ordered activation of the 'Plan Ávila', a last ditch procedure to deal with uncontrollable disorder by armed elements about to take over the city, - none of which was either possible (no guns for that), happening or foreseeable: The soldiers refused to fire from their light tanks with 90mm cannon on the unarmed and generally lighthearted crowd milling about and still a way off from the palace. On seeing the game was up - the military wouldn't obey direct orders - the president sought to resign (according to one general) or was asked to do so(according to another) and be placed under military protection, it being the remaining haven of an unpopular and authoritarian ruler. When that happened, the military were stuck with a president who was announced by one of their number on national TV to have accepted the resignation proposal. No one had expected all this so the military sought someone, anyone, who could take over whilst a new transition was put together and an election date could be settled. They found a new fellow, one who had been a rigourously straighforward critic of presidential highhandedness and who had been calling for democratic solutions all along; this was nothing exceptional since all the opposition has been doing just that. Crass mistakes were made owing to the entirely unexpected turn of events and less scrupulous armed forces officers (now very rich less scruplulous armed forces offciers), one in command of an armoured brigade, virtually forced the 'constitutional' reinstatement of the deposed president, himself an ex-lieutenant colonel and coup leader, gun in hand, of the 1991 uprising. All this was touted a coup d'état by the government and the 'coupsters and their lackies and running dogs' were touted as terrorists, 'terrorism' being the reigning buzzword. (In an aside, I may include that, on national TV, some remaining presidential supporters swore in the incumbent vice-president meanwhile, rendering his formal removal necessary, were the president to return. When that happened, nothing else was done since,"We took no formal record of the swearing in so, officially, it didn't happen." Blimey!) The foreign correspondents carried on with their rubbish until recently when some began to see things otherly. That wasn't long before Venezuela didn't abstain in the vote on Cuba's firing squad executions and extreme sentencing of dissidents last week; Venezuela voted in favour of the Island's regime. This left it out in the cold but closer to Fidel who keeps his relations with Venezuela in good nick for the free oil he gets. That is, the oil that he's supposed to pay for but is over $200,000,000 behind in payments for, thereby converting current shipments into 'free oil'. K'aching! Muchas gracias, Caracas, amigos de mi alma!! There's lots more but this should give some indication of the intricacies involved. PART I ends
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Apr 23 22:03:04 2003
z
Babs <>
Southporzzzzzzzzzt, , , Wed Apr 23 11:44:54 2003
Now now Andy, Chippy's not really that scary(You met her briefly in the Park at Christmas) She's now back for her last term in Edinburgh so Southport is Chipmonk free for awhile. She returns complete with M.A in the summer to join the dole queue ......too many kids(and chipmonks)with degrees but no jobs these days. JJ is there a website that tells us the truth about the Veneluela situation?
Babs <>
Chippy Free Southport, , , Wed Apr 23 11:44:16 2003
I'm going into Southport today babs. How can I avoid the chipmonk?
Andy Melia <>
Burbo, , , Wed Apr 23 07:48:21 2003
And they lived happily ever after. Load and look, plus loudspeakers http://www.zen15631.zen.co.uk/bb.mpg, being quite a job to get just right with the timing and all.

Situation in Venezuela deteriorating yet again - young children reciting diatribes at endlss imauguration ceremonies, of the "Head of yanqui beast must be severed" variety, all with approving nods from, inter alia, some Brit called Tarik Alí - but my computer is working again. I had bad problems with a virus and only after drastickest measures was able to get rid of it. My apologies to anyone who might have gotten unsolicited mail, ostensibly from me but, in fact, part of my recent calvaric undergoings.

...& God
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 22 22:41:23 2003


Musta taken you hours to work your way down to that one! Oh well still several more hours to go to the end.....(keep him outa mischief eh?)
Babs <>
Chipmonkport, , , Tue Apr 22 22:31:40 2003
Hey Babs This would have made a better picture... http://www.southportforums.com/forums/babs/chipmonkbabs.jpg Everyone say "aaaahhh".
The Voice of (T)reason <>
Cultureville, , , Tue Apr 22 22:09:08 2003
Nope ~ shucks......
Babs <>
Still here, , , Tue Apr 22 18:13:32 2003
That should have shown a piccie ~ try again! [IMG]http://www.southportforums.com/forums/babs/culture.gif[/IMG]
Babs <>
same plave, , , Tue Apr 22 18:12:38 2003
Vote for Liverpool!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/capitalofculture/?display=1 http://www.southportforums.com/forums/babs/culture.gif
Babs <>
Southport near Liverpool, , , Tue Apr 22 18:10:41 2003
Salty, Thanks. I had a goz at the BSC site. lo and behold! There's the original Tyrer One! Brings back memories of the times when Mr. Tyrer (Gerry) would take us kids out in his boat. There was always one under construction in his shed in the back garden. We would launch at the bottom of Holden Road when the tide was right. The best time to go sailing was when the tide was out because all the sandbanks were exposed. Went out to Burbo a few times,( Worshipful Mayor please note). The sand there was clean and golden. Cockles a plenty for the picking. Ponds would form that were suitable for swimming. The view from the banks was breathtaking. So would be the view of anyone who was watching us from the shore through a telescope as we sunbathed and ran around starkers for the fun of it. And no, the seagulls never pecked it off! Sometimes we had to run the gauntlet to get up the Alt when the rifle range was open. You could hear the 303's whizzing overhead. The red pennant would be flown as a warning. What's the name of the award that we were eligible for? DSO or something.
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, On Lake Ontario, , Sun Apr 20 02:45:39 2003
Thank you for imparting that information Mr Moyes. I expect you are relieved the game wasn't on TV. Kind regards from the Champions League. Ker-ching!!
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, The old 1-2, Burbo, Sat Apr 19 17:13:47 2003
ffrank,the net nanny must have got it:

www.blundellsandssailingclub.8m.com/november02

sks
Salty <>
same as before, , , Sat Apr 19 14:11:58 2003


ffrank, you might try:

Should bring back a few memories.sks
Salty K. Sam <>
Due South of TTO, , , Sat Apr 19 14:08:50 2003


The Fishermans Rest in Bikdale often footie and The Arion in Ainsdale but dunno about any closer to the Mayor's official des res though. By the way Mayor did you say you had some piccies from Brum?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sat Apr 19 12:50:52 2003
Sorry Mr Mayor...... you and your entourage will have to rely on local radio stations. There is NO tv coverage of this game whatsoever! We'll probably get 90 secs on "The Premiership" tonight!!!! Bizarre really, seein as this is the most important derby for 50 odd years and one that could see the Red S****s financial plans for the next 12 months in tatters as "the boy" tears them apart! COME ON YOU BLUES !
David Moyes <>
GOOD PARK, , , Sat Apr 19 12:18:53 2003
Urgent Message. Does anyone know of a public house showing the Everton v Liverpool game this afternoon? One that would welcome the Mayor and his entourage?
Mayor <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Burbo-on-the-Kop, , , Sat Apr 19 07:40:25 2003
"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy not approved by the Jews. -- Sec. of State John Foster Dulles, Feb. 1957

Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, has spoken with blunt exasperation about the Jewish-Israeli hold on the United States:
I've never seen a President -- I don't care who he is -- stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don't have any idea what goes on.

"The Israelis control the policy in the congress and the senate ... somewhere around 80 percent of the senate of the United States is completely in support of Israel -- of anything Israel wants...." -- Chairman Senator Fullbright, 10/07/1973 on CBS' "Face the Nation".

Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar who has taught political science at City University of New York (Hunter College), says in his book, The Holocaust Industry, that "invoking The Holocaust" is "a ploy to delegitimize all criticism of Jews." "By conferring total blamelessness on Jews, the Holocaust dogma immunizes Israel and American Jewry from legitimate censure ... Organized Jewry has exploited the Nazi holocaust to deflect criticism of Israel's and its own morally indefensible policies." He writes of the brazen "shakedown" of Germany, Switzerland and other countries by Israel and organized Jewry "to extort billions of dollars." "The Holocaust," Finkelstein predicts, "may yet turn out to be the 'greatest robbery in the history of mankind'."

Jews in Israel feel free to act brutally against Arabs, writes Israeli journalist Ari Shavit, "believing with absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our own." The New York Times, May 27, 1996

The French ambassador in London, Daniel Bernard, privately acknowledged that Israel -- which he called "that s****y little country" -- is threatening world peace. "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?" he bluntly said. Jerusalem Post 20/12/2001
Alek James Hidell <>
Crosby, , parallel universe #911, Sat Apr 19 02:10:05 2003


Bill, Thanks for the rec re Common Dreams but I'm aready a regular reader of CD,Z Net et al.

One I particularly like is Counterpunch, edited by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St John. (Alexander is a brilliant essayist and polemicist.) Like CD and Z Net, CP offers an "alternative" view of contemporary issues from mainstream media. It's great, because where else can one read (apart from buying their books) the dissenting voices of Chomsky and Said and other intellectual luminaires!


mhughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Sat Apr 19 02:07:07 2003


Over here, if you go into a store to buy an insulated parka in the middle of Winter, you can't. That's because they (the storekeepers) already have their Spring/Summer clothing on display. Likewise, try to buy a golf shirt in the middle of Summer. Will a pullover do? (We actually call them sweaters). Now if I may be so bold as to divert the topic of discussion away from the timely Easter talk of Religion, Jews, Muslims, Fuhrers, Wars and other opinionated material and philosophical debate, I would like to re-open a recent subject of discussion.- The "Tyrer" Waterloo designed and built sailing dinghy. A member of the Tyrer family has been tracked down and will shortly add some postings to this site. We should all be thinking ahead.......to Summer, Sailing and the Brooke re-union.
FRANK <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, Ontario, , Sat Apr 19 02:01:51 2003
Dear Mr. Hiddel, from what I discovered trawling through Google, you seem to be a porn-film director.

I hope your films are as clear as your postings to this group, 'cos I try and try, but I can't see your point.

Maybe you should stick to porn.Mind you, from what you've said so far, I assume few of your leading men are circumcised...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 18 22:38:11 2003


In referring to the declaration of war against Germany in 1917 by the United States, Sir Winston Churchill said in an interview published in Scribner's Commentator in America in 1936:

"America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the spring of 1917. Had we made peace there would have been no collapse of Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all of these 'isms' wouldn't be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government, and if England made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American and other lives. Germany's peace offer to Great Britain asked for neither indemnities nor reparations. Germany offered to restore the territorial status and the political independence of every country with whom Great Britain was at war, as they existed in August l9l4 when the war in Europe started. Germany demanded no benefits."
Alek James Hidell <>
Crosby, , parallel universe #911, Fri Apr 18 16:07:21 2003


Just a demo of how it can be done...

Malcolm, as if you needed any confirmation of the motivation for the presen war, read the following:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0414-02.htm

and then read the bit in today's newspaper about the contract Bechtel has "just been awarded..."

(I picked this up via the "Right Wing Watch" mailing list.)
Bill <`>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 18 12:35:57 2003


Talking about fundamentalist misery, is this temporal lobe epilepsy resonsible for people mindlessly cutting and pasting useless data onto TCC?

Claire, I have a suggestion. It is easy to program your website so thatthe IP number of every poster is reported along with e-mail, location, etc. With a few exceptions, this would mean that nobody could anonymously post racist or extremely abusive material, because we could all send TOSs to their providers. I hate playing netcop, but some things are too much, even for obtuse little old me...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 18 11:29:05 2003


The mayor doesn't know the answer to the world's problems but apparantly (with a little help from a TV programme shown last night) he now knows the cause. It transpires that certain sufferers of temporal-lobe epilepsy experience religious hallucinations and/or revelations during seisures. Even if the sufferters are atheists. Could the divine visions of Moses, St Paul and others connected to Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Shintoism, Hinduism etc. etc. be the unwitting cause of so much fundamentalist misery throughout the world? Chew on that while chewing your Easter Egg. Down Bonnie!
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Mayor, The peaceful haven of Burbo, , Fri Apr 18 08:01:48 2003
Is anybody planning on attending the 60th anniversary of the BATTLE of THE ATLANTIC celebrations? The celebs for the 50th were really something. HRH an Phil were there on the Royal Yacht along with warships galore. Even the Russian Navy were there. The Russian warship was open to the public. Maybe we can get the Royal Navy to take care of this FUHRER guy in his rubber dinghy before he gets any ideas about invading BURBO...Andy (Worshipful Mayor), why don't you fly the Star of David over Burbo for a few days. ( In commemoration of Jaffa Orange week). Wonder how our Fuhrer friend would react to that.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, CANADA, , Fri Apr 18 04:23:23 2003
Hey, who is this FUHRER guy who is using my e-mail address to post? You dumbkopf............I'll post my own messages and express my own opinions and ideas thank you!!!!
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, CANADA, , Fri Apr 18 03:54:04 2003
One wonders if the Jew is the intellectual that is proclaimed. After all, they still practice male mutilation-for Religious purposes? ? ? ? In other countries we hear of thr barbaric practice of female mutilation by other races but we condemn that. Even in England, the Muslims get away with cruelty to animals in the name of religion. Instead of butchering an animal humanely so that it doesn't suffer unneccessary pain and terror, all they do is say a quick prayer to Allah before slitting the animal's throat. It's called Halal. The Jew does something similar but calls it Kosher. We unwittingly tolerate their wierd customs.
THE FUHRER <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, (Not St. Bede's), Fri Apr 18 03:50:22 2003
Zionism versus Bolshevism.

By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.
Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 8, 1920

SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.

And it may well be that this same astounding race may at the present time be in the actual process of producing another system of morals and philosophy, as malevolent as Christianity was benevolent, which, if not arrested would shatter irretrievably all that Christianity has rendered possible. It would almost seem as if the gospel of Christ and the gospel of Antichrist were destined to originate among the same people; and that this mystic and mysterious race had been chosen for the supreme manifestations, both of the divine and the diabolical.

International Jews.

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus- Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Terrorist Jews.

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and an the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution: by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
THEY ARE STILL AT IT !!!! <>
, , , Fri Apr 18 02:15:06 2003


The Balfour Declaration represented the convinced policy of all parties in our country and also in America, but the launching of it in 1917 was due, as I have said, to propagandist reasons. I should like once more to remind the British public, who may be hesitating about the burdens of our Zionist Declaration to-day, of the actual war position at the time of that Declaration. We are now looking at the War through the dazzling glow of a triumphant end, but in 1917 the issue of the War was still very much in doubt. We were convinced - but not all of us - that we would pull through victoriously, but the Germans were equally persuaded that victory would rest on their banners, and they had much reason for coming to that conclusion. They had smashed the Roumanians. The Russian Army was completely demoralised by its numerous defeats. The French Army was exhausted and temporarily unequal to striking a great blow. The Italians had sustained a shattering defeat at Caporetto. The unlimited submarine campaign had sunk millions of tons of our shipping. There were no American divisions at the front, and when I say at the front, I mean available in the trenches. For the Allies there were two paramount problems at that time. The first was that the Central Powers should be broken by the blockade before our supplies of food and essential raw material were cut off by sinkings of our own ships. The other was that the war preparations in the United States should be speeded up to such an extent as to enable the Allies to be adequately reinforced in the critical campaign of 1918 by American troops. In the solution of these two problems, public opinion in Russia and America played a great part, and we had every reason at that time to believe that in both countries the friendliness or hostility of the Jewish race might make a considerable difference.

Another most cogent reason for the adoption by the Allies of the policy of the declaration lay in the state of Russia herself. Russian Jews had been secretly active on behalf of the Central Powers from the first; they had become the chief agents of German pacifist propaganda in Russia; by 1917 they had done much in preparing for that general disintegration of Russian society, later recognised as the Revolution. It was believed that if Great Britain declared for the fulfilment of Zionist aspirations in Palestine under her own pledge, one effect would be to bring Russian Jewry to the cause of the Entente.

It was believed, also, that such a declaration would have a potent influence upon world Jewry outside Russia, and secure for the Entente the aid of Jewish financial interests. In America, their aid in this respect would have a special value when the Allies had almost exhausted the gold and marketable securities available for American purchases. Such were the chief considerations which, in 1917, impelled the British Government towards making a contract with Jewry.

David Lloyd George, Memoirs of the Peace Conference, Volume II, New Haven, Yale University Press 1939
Thucydides <>
Crosby, Athens, Ancient Greece, Fri Apr 18 01:52:02 2003


As for the Rockingham connection, my old china...

It's about as subtle a clue as, say...
the passport of Mohammed Atta that mysteriously survived the vaporization and demolition of the Twin Towers, to just flutter down to land face-up on a pile of rubble...or the Korans and Arab flight manuals helpfully left at the Airport carpark...or the Israeli spy-ring discovered in the *same street* in Venice, Florida where the "terrorists" lived, only to be deported -no questions asked- the subject deemed "classified"...or...or...or...or...or

Alek James Hidell <>
Crosby, , parallel universe #911, Fri Apr 18 01:30:15 2003


Eh?
Confused <>
, , , Fri Apr 18 01:21:11 2003
Lloyd George and Churchill both freely admitted the deal with the Zionists... and they have a lot to answer for

The Rise of Communism
World War 2
The Cold War
The Palestinan Conflict
The next war...

Prisoner Number 7 <>
, , , Thu Apr 17 20:07:54 2003


Ah yes Fuhrer: St Bede's it was then.
Mayor <>
Burbo Bank Boot Camp, , , Thu Apr 17 16:16:45 2003
Dear Andy Melia, I attended HIGH School. (Borstal-on-the Hill). Bill, B.B.B., ...Philosophical writings hold many keys. For example,the Sepher Yezirah which is an ancient book on creation and the world's oldest philosophical writing in Hebrew. Translated into English by Dr. Isidor Kalisch. My point which you may have overlooked in the previous posting was that the ancient philosophers held the keys of knowledge and power (knowledge IS power) as well as keys to the future. We have abandoned what these philosophers and Ancients gave to us. Instead, Western society has immersed itself in all that the Ancients warned us against. It is modern day society that is living in primitive times as we have chosen to go backward rather than forward. Take the belligerants in Northern Ireland. Catholics vs Protestants. In the Middle East it's Arab vs Jew. Hitler said "Arbeit Macht Frei"- "Work will set you free". Manipulations of backward thinking religious leaders have bred terrorism and hatred which are negative forces. Can mankind not become more positive? Our life span is short. Can we not enjoy our short stay on this Earth? Hitler's plan addressed these glaring problems.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu Apr 17 14:09:11 2003
"Reading the works of Socrates and "other philosophers" ... leads to enlightenment"

Hmmm. Someone who has even less understanding of philosophy than they do of history.

AS for the school they attended, Mr. Mayor, take Mr. Rockingham's advice about doing your research by typing his name into "Google". You get quite an interesting result! There ain't no such thing as co-incidence ;)

When I was a youth, (conservative) Cllr. Neville Goldrein was Mayor of our belovéd Borough. I didn't like his politics, but I never felt him to be a Zionist threat. Mind you, being annexed might not have been so bad. Think of the cheap oranges!
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 17 09:15:08 2003


Dear Fuhrer and Lord Rockingham, which schools in Crosby did you attend?
Andy Melia <>
Minister of Burbo Education, Six of the Best, , Thu Apr 17 08:17:11 2003
Anthony R., Reading the works of Socrates and other Philosophers is similar in a way to learning Latin. BINGO!!, the penny drops, the light goes on and all of a sudden you have learned several languages in one go. It's called enlightenment. Or if you like, being illuminated. Believing something, well, is meaningless since belief implies lack of knowledge....right?........And yes,it can be said and not denied that the Jew is skilfull at manipulation. The example that you gave as to how Israel manipulates America is right on. Just look at Hollywood movies. The Jew is always portrayed as the persecuted underdog...It's only natural that when our emotions are aroused, we cheer.......for the underdog - and are thus manipulated mentally. Jesus was not a Jew. He lived, like others, under Jewish law and was expected to toe the Jewish line. Jews had the knowledge and knowledge is power. To grow mushrooms you keep them in the dark and feed them s***. The mushrooms are happy because they don't know the difference.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu Apr 17 04:21:23 2003
The ancient-Greek philosopher Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of Truth can only begin once they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear...

If a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but the thinker must also then question WHY he was led to believe the erroneous information in the first place.

Not surprisingly, this type of teaching didn't sit well with the ruling elite of Greece... Many political leaders throughout history have always sought to mislead the thinking of the masses. Socrates was tried for "subversion" and for "corrupting the youth". He was then forced to take his own life by drinking hemlock. The equivalent modern treatment is to be labelled a "conspiracy-theorist" or "anti-Semite"

For those who are brave enough to apply Socratean philosophy to our own situation, I would commend the following

History of the Pelopponesian War by Thucydides [pre-emptive strike war, how the masses can be easily manipulated by myths]
Origins of the Second World War by AJP Taylor [explains why Hitler neither sought war nor started the war, and how Britain was not a "winner" of the war, but the loser - as Hitler had correctly predicted in 1925]
Read the warnings of Zionist defectors - these people know what they are talking about!
Benjamin Freedman [member of the Zionist delegation to Versailles, 1919, explains how the Zionists in Germany and Britain manipulated America into the First World War in exchange for Palestine, and the myth of the Holocaust]
Arthur Koestler [respected "Jewish" Austro-English philosopher, showed that the vast majority of today's "Jews" are not Jewish at all, and have absolutely no ethnic or historical right to the land of Palestine. His book "The Thirteenth Tribe" was suppressed, and he died in mysterious circumstances shorty afterwards] Victor Ostrovsky [ex-Mossad agent, book "By Way of Decption" on how Israel manipulates America to do its bidding, especially in attacking Arabs/Muslims, by the use of "false flag" operations - 911 another example??]
Norman Finkelstein [calls for the shutting-down of the fraudulent "Holocaust industry", describing it as an extortion racket, most "holocaust survivors" are demonstrable liars/fantasists, and its use as a weapon to deflect valid criticism of Israel]

You get the general idea...most offical "historians" like Trevor-Roper(Lord Faker) and Bullock (b.o.l.l.o.c.k.s) are not true historians, but "offical" myth-makers or state-sponsored propagandists.

Remember the wisdom of Socrates - and do your own research!!
Anthony Rockingham <>
Crosby, Athens, Ancient Greece, Thu Apr 17 02:14:40 2003


To draw conclusions or a comparison between ADOLF HITLER and SADDAM HUSSEIN, consider the what if's. For example if Hitler had won, the German sense of precision, law, order and discipline would prevail. All of Europe be crime free and clean. None of this present day mass migration that all of Britain is squawking about. All trash would be cleaned up in a hurry. What is lacking in this world today is discipline. Had Saddam not been eradicated, death and fear would prevail. Fanatical religious leaders would be given the green light to exercise their backward ideals of intolerance, terrorism and trouble. It's the English who have screwed up this world big time, as history will show you.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu Apr 17 01:52:30 2003
Last posting incomlete

Dear AF, It's interesting to note that half of the historians you recommend are very conservative to extreme right-wing: Lord Alan Bullock (read his book on Hitler many, many years ago, and if my memory serves me right--which is always a dangerous thing to say---I think Bullock may have glowingly endorsed Shirer's book on the back or front of the "The Rise and Fall...as essential reading for anyone wanting to understand the Nazi era ); Lord Trevor-Roper and David Irving. (Is Lord Trevor-Roper the very same historian who made such a damn fool of himself and his profession in authenticating the fake Hitler Diaries? If so, hardly a historian I would use as an example to bolster my argument).

Some historians would argue that to be there when history is taking place is infinitely better than relying on other peoples' interpretation of what actually occured. Others may take you stance and argue history has to "pass" before the the past can be re-constructed. Question: would you like to be a policeman/Dectective etc, witnessing a crime first -hand and then with the available evidence from onlookers determine what happened or just rely on evidence of witnesses?

ps Neither you nor JJ have enumerated the elusive "valid analogies" between Hussein and Hitler.

mhughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Thu Apr 17 00:56:22 2003


Dear AF, It's interesting to note that half of the historians you recommend are very conservative to extreme right-wing: Lord Alan Bullock (read his book on Hitler many, many years ago, and if my memory serves me right--which is always a dangerous thing to say---I think Bullock may have glowingly endorsed Shirer's book on the back or front of the "The Rise and Fall...as essential reading for anyone wanting to understand the Nazi era ); Lord Trevor-Roper and David Irving. (Is Lord Trevor-Roper the very same historian who made such a damn fool of himself and his profession in authenticating the fake Hitler Diaries? If so, hardly a historian I would use as an example to bolster my argument).

Some historians would argue that to be there when history is taking place is infinitely better than relying on other peoples' interpretation of what actually occured. Others may take you stance and argue history has to "pass" before the the past can be re-constructed. Question: would you like to be a policeman/Dectective etc, witnessing a crime or rely on the evidence of others?

You say

ps Neither you nor JJ have enumerated the elusive "valid analogies" between Hussein and Hitler.

mhughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Thu Apr 17 00:35:22 2003


Mike Smith - Golden Ring coffee, eh? Yes, I remember that stuff (and you, of course old chap). Any more memories you care to share?

Babs - no he's not (well, as far as I know, anyway), and pray tell, who is this hot Marina gal the Mayor has been jiving with?

Mr Mangler - you must be thinking of someone else, as Bill was present (and as far as I can recall, correct) at Brookes I and II; I remember this distinctly because he drank most of the beer ;-)
Phizynot <aph.uk@virgin.net>
Down South somewhere..., , , Wed Apr 16 21:28:25 2003


Malcolm of the many nom de guerre: William Shirer is old hat and his research, impressive at the time, does little to explain the nature of evil in the man at the centre of the events he describes. Consequently, and as you rightly point out, a read of it will not help draw historical analogies between Hussein and Hitler. That does not mean valid analogies do not exist. A read of more brilliant and controversial explainers of the Weimar and Reich era, ranging from Alan Bullock and Hugh Trevor-Roper to Daniel Goldhagen, George Steiner, Ron Rosenbaum and even David Irving might help you to discover some of these. History, of course, never looks like history when you are living through the chaos of it. What happened in the past to influence the present and cloud over the future is not what actually happened but what we think happened. Referrals to outdated scholarship doesn't help clarify matters at all at all. A Greek poet once chiselled: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing". Maybe the foxes posting on this Noticeboard who insist on relating historical irrelevancies that are not necessarily related, or relatable, will be altogether happier if and when Washington's hawks turn into hedgehogs, and the United States pulls up the Atlantic drawbridge and once again beats an orderly retreat into a policy of isolationism and nonengagement.
A.F. <cantabfellow@therange.com>
, , , Wed Apr 16 18:36:13 2003
Dear JJ, Just because Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler were both dictators and both pursued expansionist policies hardly constitutes an historical analogy which any decent historian would like to hang his/her hat upon.

The only reason the stinking carcass of Hitler is dug up at regular intervals is purely for propaganda purposes.

Apart from the fact that both men were tyrants of the worst sort the only other comparision that springs to mind is they both had a penchant for moustaches and military uniforms.

You would do well to read William Shirer's truly brilliant critique of Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Riech: A History of the Nazi Germany" (an exceptionally long but worthwhile read)to see why a historical analogy between the two is simplistic and misleading.
malcolm hughes <mhughes@chariot.net .au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Wed Apr 16 13:55:46 2003


John, the answer to your question "If weapons of mass destruction are inherently immoral and evil, where does that leave France, the UK, the US, Russia, Israel, India and Pakistan, plus any nuclear lurkers out there?" has to be "morally bankrupt".

Having seen the effects of nuclear weapons, not just on Japanese civilians, but by testing them on their own citizens (!) the nuclear powers continued to build them. That's pretty sick, John!

And since it was clear that Japan had already sued for peace over a week before Hiroshima, the argument that it shortened the war and saved hundreds of thousands of lives doesn't wash either...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 16 11:48:24 2003


Fear not jj. All this anti-"war" cynicism has been truly put to bed by a genuinely humanitarian story. I refer to "Injured Ali". Ali, a delightful little Iraqi boy whose mum and dad were blown to pieces...er "liberated" in front of his eyes by "coalition" bombing has become a cause celebre with the more popularist UK newspapers. Due to intense media presssure, Ali (who was dying, having inconveniently only being partly liberated of both his arms) has been airlifted to a Noo-friendly state for life-saving treatment. Not to miss a photo opportunity the "coalition" have been showing pictures of a happy, smiling Ali (minus mum, dad and arms) being treated to "civilized values". Makes you feel proud doesn't it?
Andy Melia <>
Noo World Disorder, , , Wed Apr 16 07:55:28 2003
Dear Malcolm, Welcome home!

Dear Joe Public, I can assure you that Saddam was and may still be a willing component in a global setup and any analogy with Hitler is quite valid: all totalitarian rulers use the same absolutist approach and have the same regard for the common mortals that are in their section of the global train. Saddam had already had two wars before this one too, both expansionist. Adolpherianly redolent, wouldn't you have thought?

Dear Andy, If weapons of mass destruction are inherently immoral and evil, where does that leave France, the UK, the US, Russia, Israel, India and Pakistan, plus any nuclear lurkers out there? And would your reference to assasination of heads of state refer to anyone particular who, in uniform and surrounded by generals, very overtly commands 'his' nation's forces because, were that the case, then his physical demise at the hands of his declared enemies wouldn't be assasination of a head of state. It would amount to another enemy soldier becoming a fatal casualty. I would also mention that, had the German dissidents or the allies managed to knock off Hitler it during the war, they would have saved all sorts of lives, both allied and Axis. So what exactly amounts to assasination in the head of state case? JFK would be one, I guess but not Saddam, if indeed, he died at all. Or got plastic surgery and is now ensconced in some Caribbean resort telling the credulous that he's Brad Pitt.

Without getting into the 'war or not' barney, I would observe that all street-smarts advice offered to any of us under threat of death, entails our ceding to demands without resistance, regardless of whether licit, for the good of our and our families' continued existence. By an analogy - whose validity might engender a friendly exchange - I would suggest that once Saddam really had a 100% credible threat on his doorstep, namely, after the first missile exploded in his backyard, he should stopped the war short by walking away from it all, fat chequebook in hand and gone into exile, as invited to do by neighbours, for the good of his country. As it is, his refusal to give in in the face of certain defeat was no more than a sacrifice of his own people on the altar of his ego.

As for stupid humans, I read a book once about the fourteenth century and one of its opening sentences was, "So what exactly was decided on Bosworth Field?" There is more but on egets part of the drift from an assertion in the introduction, being "King Henry was 34 years old before he realised that the world really is as silly as it seems." Plus que cela change,... etc.

....& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Apr 16 01:56:23 2003


Dear Joe, no I'm not particularly obtuse, and if you read what I wrote on several occasions, I am actually against the rape of Iraq by the "coalition".

What has upset me for a long time is that the western governments pay lip service to concepts like freedom and democracy, and let countries like the Congo go to hell on a handcar. I have for years been convinced that it's because it's Africa. Sunny Abacha was sitting on one of the world's greatest reserves of oil, and milking his country dry, torturing and murdering dissidents, and neither the White House nor Number 10 showed any concern, so oil's not the whole issue. A boycott at the Commonwealth Games was the only sanction if memory serves!

However, those now protesting against the actions of the coalition in Iraq (and shortly Syria, I fear) sat on their arzez while million were slaughtered in Ruanda, and later Congo.

There is a token force of 4500 U.N. peacekeepers, but their primary task is to guard U.N. facilities, not to police the situation.

I didn't notice anyone cutting and pasting material from obscure websites to bring this to the attention of Crosbeians.

And I hate people who attack others on the 'net while using the anonymity thereof to hide. So if one of these contributors says "the sky is blue" I will insist that it is green, just to get them riled. And guess what? It works. ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 15 15:39:12 2003


Eh? I've never missed a Brooke re-union! I probably won't be there this year because of work commitments, but as I remember, I sat waiting for several hours for some gobby git (rhymes with...), who when push came to shove, didn't have the bottle to show up ;)

Interesting how when we talk about the lessons of history, we get such a good one on revisionism.

Welcome back, Master Bates ! Another shi'ite who hides behind the anonymity of the internet...

I regret that this time, I will make this the only contribution to this debate, cos, sonny boy, YOU ain't worth the effort. At least Voltaire et al. made some intelligent points. ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 15 15:25:35 2003


Just listen to blue eyed billy going in for the kill with all his false bravado. Several years ago he was not man enough to drop in to the Brookers - He was dropping brownies in his little pink bloomers at the thought of being a man - course what can one expect from a social worker --- you know ,resource sucking leaches. A big man on the key board though, all fearless and full of fighting spirit. Billy boy you are a fraud. ABW please call me MR. Mangler from now on.
The Mangler <bloodingutsenveinsentendons@ ripper.com.org.net>
Lower Liverpool, , Blair land, Tue Apr 15 14:42:16 2003
Well if there are three things I have learned about this ahem! "war'" (apart from the actual number of lucky Iraqi civilians who have been, splutter! "liberated" by being bombed to pieces) they are:

1. Weapons of mass destruction are immoral and evil. So that gets us off the hook, doesn't it?.

2. It is acceptable to asassinate a foreign head of state.

3. Humans are far more stoopid than I thought.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
, , , Tue Apr 15 08:12:47 2003


Alleluya! JJ has finally trimmed Malcolm's sail, alleluya! So Malcolm row your boat ashore...."History!" roared the silver maned Senator indignantly.... " What's the matter with American history? American history is as good as any history in the world!" (Catch-22).
Kia Ora <downunder@waikikamukau.com>
The Sailing Club, Adelaide, , Tue Apr 15 05:48:27 2003
Dear JJ, I seem to have you at a disadvantage (that is you may be unsure to whom you are addressing with your posting.) And that would never do my sense of fair play.

The pseudonyms:Eric Blair;Clark Kent;Maxwell Smart;John Donne;Alexander 4;peace activist; Edwin Starr and Joe Public are officially retired.
Malcolm Hughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Tue Apr 15 04:06:08 2003


Ach so ! Ze name GOLDIE MEIR is mentioned on zis zite. She vas kicked out of Kanada back in ze sixties when on a "fundraising" mission. She had the audacity to place a quota on Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg. Jews in each city were required to contribute money and meet the "quota". She was asked to get the H*** out of Kanada. Jews in England do not have the same rights as the Brits. This is an old law that is still on the books. Something to do with the fact that they owe their allegiance to Israel and not Britain. Akin to the Henry V111 vs the Pope issue.
Fuhrer <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Tue Apr 15 03:36:26 2003
dear mr crompton, Are you obtuse by nature or is there something else we should be told?

The allusion to 1939 was made in the context of not dealing with a dictator. Hence your friend's referal to the much often used Chamberlain quote: "peace in our time". The historical analogy between Hitler, an evil genius who wanted to rule the world and create a 1000 year Reich, and Hussein, a third-rate thug, does not exist. It exists only in the minds of people, such as your friend and Mr Bush, who has himself, used the quote on more than one occasion to scare people into thinking Mr Hussien was about to launch WWW3.

You are right on one score, though: we must delve into the past to explain the present and maybe...the future. The Treaty of Versailles was one of the main catalysts which allowed the rise of Hitlerism. And the present troubles in the Middle East can in large part be lain at the doorstep of the Treaty: the re-drawing of national boundaries in the region to suit British and French national interests; and the contradictory promises made by the British (The Balfour D)to Palestinians and the newly emerging Zionist movement, which had chosen Palestine as the place to create a new nation.

Apropos your comments on racism: Sorry...the illogicality, flimsyness and non-sequitars that overload your argument don't need a reply. People just have to go to your posting to see why!

If you're struggling with the meaning of racism here's a classic racist statement from former PM of Israel, Goldie Meir, when seeking to justify Israel's acquistion of Palestinian land for Jews: " a land without a people, a people without a land".
joe public <joe public@large>
, , , Tue Apr 15 03:12:03 2003


Dear Starr, I didn't catch the 1939 connexion in relation to my posts there at all. Even so, it's hardly a stretch to see that, had there been no 1939, then there would have been no holocaust and by extension, no Israel emerging in 1948. This fact of life today works to keep the fires of emergent Arab nationalism and multiple regional hates well fuelled. That aspect was not lost on any of the richer states who, at the outset could have taken in the relatively fewer (than now) Palestinian refugees but chose to let them fester in camps. But again, would you have taken in the refugees, had you had the what with in spades? Or indeed, should you have at all at all? And does Israel actually serve the Jewish cause? Or not. And, if not, what cause does it serve? Shame about that 1939 business. All in all. I mean, dammit all, couldn't they have just kinda gone straight on to 1940 for a change?

As for a generic comment on past and present, I have often thought that today's folk are growing up in an electronic world where 'right now' is the only time seen as real. In other words, they are in large measure growing up without a past. That is grave inasmuch as it's not something easily tacked on later and, like some subtle diseases such as chronic hypertension, it is not felt and so not seen as being significant. "Outdated rantings of outdated people". And like hypertension, so it stays, until something blows up in somebody's face and then, "Well, how could we have been expected to foresee ..(what in fact had been staring you in the face for a while)? I mean, it was never seen as impacting the specifics of the prevailing episodes unfolding as a result of... (my superior acute perception of)...." And so it goes. Then, someone with 20/20 hindsight vision, remembers that some Crompton fellow mentioned something by an earlier chap, a Santaella or somesuch, about being forced to relive history. 'Ah yes, well that was prescient wasn't it? Unfortunate about old Ahmed though, And Ben. Who'd've thought it? Who dwells on the past anyway and to what its relevance in the third millennium? All tripe, I say. I'll have a double scotch there please ...... Battle of the Boyne, you say? Is that some American tradional sport with cabers and things?

...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 15 03:05:58 2003


I blame the bloody Big Bang for the lot of it. The trouble it caused... Really, the events of 1919 are no more related to what is happening now than was a yak farmer turning left instead of right one summer's day in 453. I'm all for the war-sceptics' arguments, but they're just not very well put. Although I have to say, the ones on this noticeboard are far and away more cogent than the ones on the streets of Leeds over the past two months: "1, 2, 3, 4, / We don't want no f****** war!". Yeah, that's a good argument. That's really grown up. So, Versailles and yak farmers aside, more power to you.
1,2,3,4 <>
Waterloo, , , Tue Apr 15 00:32:40 2003
To answer the qustion put by Mr. Starr, "those who cannot learn from history are condemned to repeat it".

If you actually knew anything about Middle Eastern history, you would know that the events starting off in 1939 are the direct cause of the events in the Gulf today. In fact, we could even go back to Versailles, 1919. But these are facts, and I notice we mustn't let facts get in the way of a good debate, must we, Mr. Starr?

BTW I used to think fishing was the most boring hobby in the universe, but now I feel one caught on my hook, I'm beginning to realise why the anglers do it...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 14 23:53:09 2003


"Impetuous youth" would probably be the most accurate description of me. But, as usual you haven't answered any of the questions put. Gutless gobshi'ite.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 14 23:44:48 2003
Dear JJ: Your postings have all the style and accruacy of a scud missile: a lot of pent up energy but way off target!

What has 1939 got to do with todays events? The historical comparision is simplistic and absurd; as any historian worth his salt will tell you. Mind you, I must admit Bush and co have attempted the same historical nexus. SAY NO MORE!!!

ps your slipslod work is well excused.

pps Dear mr crompton, as the organ grinders monkey you would do well to remember that hubris, will in the end, cut down any man or idea(or should it be boy, with you?).
E Starr <EStarr@war...what is it good for...>
, , , Mon Apr 14 23:10:46 2003


Dear Wer bin ich anyway? Excuse my slipshodship there. It should of course read, "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen die Götter selbst, vergebens."

...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Apr 14 19:05:22 2003


Dear 'ashamed of who I am' peace activist old chap, Have a go at seeing the difference between a peacemaker and a pacifist and look at the consequences of 'peace at any price'. And brush up your German by translating a saying of theirs, "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen die Gótter selbst, vergebens."

Dear Babs, And I found Shirley Abicair! Catch that between your teeth and say "2/6 and three points, please!"

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Apr 14 19:01:24 2003


Hey look who I just found on whirlygig ~Sheriff Tex Tucker,his dog, Dusty, and his horse, Rocky.
babs <>
Four Feather Falls, , , Mon Apr 14 18:20:18 2003
Phoar Bill ~ I love it when you get angry! I've saved the whirlygig url to me favourites and return to Topsy Turvey land everytime one of these idjuts spout their idjutsies. Did they name that pond down the bottom of South Road after Marina?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Mon Apr 14 18:04:16 2003
I think you have a bloody cheek to address me by my name when we haven't been introduced. It all comes back to my statement some weeks ago that I consider that those who carry out attacks on, or are critical of, others but dare not use their own names to be the true cowards. So until YOU use your real name, you may refer to me as "Mr. Crompton"!

Someone who gets worried about the "coalition" wasting hundreds of innocent Iraqis, when Americans are the perpertrators, but apparently couldn't give a flying feck about 3 and a half million Africans getting slaughtered gives me the idea that they don't care about black people. Hence the suggestion that the author is crypto-racist. (look it up!)

Those who thrust their opinions down others' throats without respecting requests to stop doing it, or at least to tone it down, are fascists. (look that up as well)

When you have learned the art of debate, come back and join the big boys. Till then, sit down, shut up and listen. Maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something...although I doubt you will.(you can say what you like about St. Mary's, they taught us the art of debate!)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 14 17:10:02 2003


JJ Sorry that there was a misprint in the last message, 'peace activist' should have read COWARD!! The editor
proud <of>
the, troops, , Mon Apr 14 16:32:18 2003
Dear JJ: Hello.

My apologies if I have rattled your cage.

I wonder why people like you defend the indefensibe and act as apoligists for the likes of Bush and his cronies?

All this claptrap about more murders are committed each year in Venezuela than the number of civlian casulaties in Iraq beggars belief. What have murders over one side of the world in a violent country got to do with the civlian war casualties in the Middle East? Moreover, how do you know how many civilians have been killed and injured by US/Anglo/Oz military forces? Are you privvy to info we less mortals are not? Because as far as I know NOBODY knows the extent of civlian war casualties.Civilain bodies are still buried under tons and tons of rubble. Do you understand that? WE DON'T KNOW YET!! A war is still being fought. Civilians are dying now. Civilians will no doubt die in the future from the cluster bombs dropped by US/Anglo forces.

You even tell us that "there wasn't more destruction than was expected either". Well,how did they work that one out? You mean with all these precision bombs they can actually calculate the extent of the damage? Tell me did this calculus also take into consideration the looting and pillaging which took place?

To be honest,I know when I beaten..I can't argue with your type of perverse logic.

ps JJ, keep rattlin' those pots and pans!

ppsBill,why is it when someone disagrees with you they are either a closet rascist or a fascist? Surely even you don't believe the tosh you wrote!
a peace activist <La Internationale@......>
, , The World, Mon Apr 14 15:55:40 2003


What the heck's John Donne doing here? I haven't been on this noticeboard for a while, and I come back to find John Donne pitching up? I had occasion to have to answer an exam question about John Donne not so long ago. Not being the biggest fan of John, I hadn't actually read any of his poems. I had, instead, spent an afternoon reading a York Notes guide to John's missives, turned up at the exam, got a First. Apropos of nothing, but John Donne is a wretchedly dull poet, and so generically non-unique that I could get a First by simply guessing things. John, hush.
The Ghost of Gordon Solie <>
Waterloo, , , Mon Apr 14 09:51:51 2003
Marina was indeed hot, Bill. Although I found her acting a little wooden.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Noo World Disorder, Burbo Bank, , Mon Apr 14 08:03:54 2003
;)

Uninteresting factoid #32541 "According to the recent edition of "The Economist", between 1998 and today, approximately 3.5 MILLION people have been killed in Congo". Seems when dark people are killing dark people, our friend who dare not use his own name is not interested, cos I haven't noticed him bringing this to our attention. I suspect, although he is possibly not aware of it himself, our friend is a crypto racist. After all, the death of anyone diminishes ME, regardless of the colour of either victim OR perpetrator. He only seems interested in "light on dark" crime.

(and hiding behing the genius of Voltaire and Donne adds no kudos to his contribution. He is, to quote someone else, not fit to lick their boots, let alone use their names...)

The greatest of all ironies is that I actually agree with his standpoint, just not with his (lack of) style in presenting it, nor the forum in which you chose to do it...

So let's skip the crap and get back to important stuff, like was Mike Mercury cooler in crisis situations than Troy Tempest? And was Marina hot, or not???
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
amsterdam, , , Mon Apr 14 01:29:18 2003


Dear Mr. Donne, You might have completed the quote from your work. We have a saying in Spanish, “The biggest lie is the half truth”. Well, look at the rest of your piece. If you find that “the death, destruction and horror inflicted on the Iraqi people is mindboggling”, then your mind is easily boggled: there were more people murdered in Venezuela last year than there were civilian casualties in the war. And the Iraqi people overall seem to be delighted the guy has been brought down. The fact is that, while Donne asserted for us all, “any man’s diminishes me”, the war with all its clumsiness, stupidity and awful mistakes still dealt out a lot less death and destruction on the Iraqi people than the fellow it got rid of. None of this is to justify by a process of ‘the guy who kills fewer is a good guy’ but to put the casualties in a context. There weren’t mindboggling deaths; there wasn’t more destruction than was to be expected either. And If you want mindboggling disregard for human rights, then look at the inter-government arrangement between the British and the Australians and the nuclear test activity at Woomera. I am sure Oz-based TCC’ers will have plenty of pent-up outrage on that score. And you devalue yourself when you resort to children and‘our very core as human beings’ stuff when there are unspeakably worse thing going on, as established policy, with utterly abandoned Korean children and pregnant Nigerian women none of whom ever seem to get a mention.

My point here with you and Mr. Donne is not to support some side á outrance but, as I mentioned earlier this week, to make a case for evenhandedness: protest all you want about injustice but let it be injustice that triggers your energy, not personal bitterness, misfittery of any stripe – and we all have some somewhere – so that your stuff has the authority it needs to avoid falling into a trashcan overflowing with similar, often vindictive lighweightery.

….& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Apr 13 22:56:37 2003


Dear Alex, I think you’re getting a bit out of your depth if you think you have the slightest idea of what I may like and I think you’re being perversely presumptuous to assume that I or anyone else whom you don’t know at all at all would be happy to see an outbreak of armed conflict in his back yard. Who are you to be coming across with this self-righteous faeces? And, more to the point, how come we haven’t heard about your position on the firing squad executions of three Cubans by their regime this week? Or the draconian, decades-long sentences handed out to dissidents, also this week, merely for being dissidents? I my experience, this kind of cant and rant is firmly anchored in a foundation of ignorance, bitterness and mental lethargy.

In other words, I feel your approach to life opens you to a readier belief in outdated formulations of 1950’s political cant. If you were to look a little further there, you wouldn’t be saying that the US example has a string of followers because it is the leader: what leader? Of what and to where? Certainly here in Latin America, no-one seeks to emulate the US and I am sure in Europe, there aren’t any that want to either. Do the Scots want to be American? The Germans? The Fijians? The Canadians? The Paraguayans? Who then? As for disparity between rich and poor, that is hardly exclusive to America. And political systems aren’t corrupt: people are. If I wanted to throw mud at American society, there’s plenty. I would start with the rights of working women; compared to Europe, for instance, they have damn few but there are no campaigning feminists on that case, it being practical and beneficial to working women, especially mothers, in a word, Real Life Stuff. This situation is far more damaging than more romantically newsworthy stuff and a disgrace to the USA. And then I’d have swipe at the advance and eventual export of the drug problems that they blame largely on the Colombians and the Colombians rightly blame on the US approach to drug legislation and more fundamentally, its own social shortfalls, beginning with the institution of the family.
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Apr 13 22:55:35 2003


Dear Bill: Inter alia,je suis Francois Marie Arouet.

But no,seriously, I'm just an ordinary guy who is against the invasion and all it stands for.

I think someone has said this before: the outrage and protestations against the invasion has nothing to do with anti-Americanism.(A very simplistic and misleading analysis of the problem). I don't "hate" the US per se but what I do find repugnant, dangerous and disturbing is the new foreign policy adopted by the extreme right wing in the White House.(Mind you, US foreign policy has always been on the nose. One only has to go to JJ's backyard and see the human rights abuses that the US supported from the early 20th century in Central and South America).

Where will the US go next?

Syria? North Korea? Libya? Palestine? Jordan? Saudia Arabia? Or it may be a country near your. Wouldn't that make JJ happy!!!

Hopefully, before too many more lives are destroyed, American expansionism and triumphalism will sink in its own excesses
Alexander 4 <Alex@the man in the iron mask>
, , , Sun Apr 13 14:43:24 2003


The problem is, John, that you haven't made any previous posts, so I do not know to what you refer.

Trying signing your stuff with the same "pseud"-onym a few times, and I might be able to find the continuity.


Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
amsterdam, , , Sun Apr 13 12:37:04 2003


Although my previous three posting may have been slighty humorous, the death, destruction and horror inflicted on the Iraqi people is mindboggling.

Let there be no doubt about it: this invasion is illegal and and reprehensible.

And we are all affected by it.

I sincerely believe we could be a witnessing a proto-type fascism, fuelled by nationalism, emerging in the US where might is right.

The US seeks to export a mirror image of itself throughout the world and although it has many good points it is a deeply flawed society. One only has to look the disparity between the rich and the poor;its failing education system; its overflowing prisons; the power of corporations;its corrupted political system and its imperial ambitions.

I'm not arguing that the US is the only bad boy on the block. Because it isn't. But it is the leader and the example it sets is followed by others.

I don't have a problem with the American people; it's the clique that is running the country which is at fault.

The shocking sights of childrens'mangled bodies cannot but touch our very core as human beings. No man is an island....
John Donne <John@no man is an island.....>
, , , Sun Apr 13 04:26:46 2003


Dear Eric, Your enviable evenhandedness would be even more manifest were you to inlcude the facts of Cuban retalliation this week, by firing squad, against three people whose only crime was to want desperately to get out. One was twenty one years old. Unlike the Iraqi regime of terror, no one died during the incident itself. It was straightforward: they tried and failed. The rest of the few who were courageous enough to try doing what you can by going over to Speke for a plane, were given prison terms of decades. The trials and appeals were all over in three days. That would get the equally repugnant facts of the decades-long prison terms doled out to other dissidents this week off the front page quick enoungh. If you would make cases for causes, then bolster your evenhandedness rating thus to give more punch to your particulars. Happy Holy Week.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Apr 13 03:45:32 2003


HOT NEWS: Mayor of Burbo Bank sighted swimming in River Mersey.

US special agent, Maxwell Smart, says they cannot confirm at this stage whether it was the Mayor or one of his doubles.

Special agent Smart, however, says that something very bulky was sighted in the man's swimming trunks....WMD?
maxwell smart <maxwll@smart thinking>
, , , Sun Apr 13 03:38:17 2003


HOT NEWS: US special forces scouring Crosby/Waterloo area looking for Mayor of Burbo Bank to question him about WMS.
clark kent <clark@daily globe>
, , , Sun Apr 13 03:27:01 2003
Nice to see the US/Anglo forces are protecting THEIR property in Iraq-the Oil Ministery--while the rest of the country descends into anarchy.

Geneva Convention...don't worry about little things like that(media beat-up).

Just treat it with the same distain and contempt as the United Nations!!!

And just wait until the US re-arranges the economy with neo-liberal reforms! (Now that's something everyone will be jealous of : a new Iraqi health system modelled on the US one.

Caprpetbaggers of the world unite!

HOT NEWS : Rumor abroad that the Weapons of Mass Destruction have been secreted on the Crosby Channel!!

Anyone with any info should contact their local ministery of WMD

Anyone giving misleading or mischevious info will be given a plum job in the Central Command Centre in Qatar. Applicants must display an ability to read whatever is put in front of them and be proficient in obfuscation and doublespeak. All truthful and honest men and women need not apply .

Guns will be supplied.

Criminal record and an ability to spin good stories will be a definite advantage.

Eric
Eric Blair <1984 @haven't I seen all this before!>
, , , Sun Apr 13 02:55:54 2003


Derek, If I win the $30,000,000.00 SUPER-7 lottery jackpot tonight, we can charter the CONCORDE and bring the Crosby lot over for the BBQ/Re-union. And next year we will call it the "International Crosby Re-union". Places like Venezuela, Australia, Holland, New Zealand, U.S.A. and Southport can bid to host future re-unions. (I hear that CONCORDE is, sadly, being pulled from service). Derek, don't forget to call Molson and Labatt Breweries to let them know about our plans for a Crosby re-union so that they can add an extra shift a week prior.
frank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
TORONTO, , , Sat Apr 12 02:12:59 2003
It may not be the Brooke but a good time is guaranteed all the same. The 1st one was a great success so if you are interested in joining the 2nd Toronto Crosby Reunion bash sometime this summer (we're thinking BBQ) and you have not heard from me already then send me an e-mail. I will coordinate to find the best date for maximum attendance and fun. Look forward to hearing from you - yes you. Regards, Derek
Derek Hilson <derek.hilson@rogers.com>
Thornhill, Ontario, Canada, Sat Apr 12 00:23:09 2003
John, if you're the egg man I'm a walrus!
Lenin <fab@four.com>
, , , Fri Apr 11 10:03:02 2003
A warning from Downing Street. The theme tune "Torchy the Battery Boy" has not been approved by this office for my client, Mr Tory Blair. For a kick-off, it is not sung in an American accent. And that anti-Noo so called Mayor of Burbo Bank's gonna git his a*s kicked.
Alaistar Campbell <>
Spin Office, Downing Street, Noo Britain, Fri Apr 11 09:51:02 2003
Oops sorry, try again

Babs and others, if you want to see some Torch footage, plus hear the original theme song, go to the following website and click on "Torchy".

"http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/"
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 10 22:01:13 2003


Babs and others, if you want to see some Torch footage, plus hear the original theme song, go to the following website and click on "Torchy".


Bill <
blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 10 22:00:12 2003


Hey Tony is he any relation to Johnny?
Babs <>
Toytown, , , Thu Apr 10 21:39:23 2003
tony hennessy if you see this please contact me re- corrie road school and steaming hot cups of golden ring coffee best wishes mike smith
mike smith <mike@squirrel-net.co.uk>
brighton-le-sands, liverpool, uk, Thu Apr 10 21:12:25 2003
tony hennessy if you see this please contact me re- corrie road school and steaming hot cups of golden ring coffee best wishes mike smith
mike smith <mike@squrrel-net.co.uk>
brighton-le-sands, liverpool, uk, Thu Apr 10 21:10:36 2003
I used to be the egg man.
John <>
, Liverpool, , Thu Apr 10 20:24:44 2003
I wish I was a spaceman

The fastest guy alive,

I'd fly around the Universe

In Fireball XL5
Old Songs <never die>
, , , Thu Apr 10 12:13:38 2003


Marina, aqua Marina,

What are these strange enchantments that start

Whenever you're near
Old Songs <never die>
, , , Thu Apr 10 12:11:42 2003


On ow er waaaay 'ome !
Robert The Robot <Zodiac@fireballxl5>
Hodgetown, Space City, , Thu Apr 10 11:19:24 2003
There was a young man from Leeds,

Who swallowed a packet of seeds,

great tufts of Grarrse,

shot out of his botty

and his testes were covered in Weeeeeeeeeeeds. cb-s.
Claude Balls-Smythe <>
Bludellsahhnds, , , Wed Apr 9 22:38:52 2003


Babs,

unlike my time at Morningside, I am still waiting for the snow and ice to uncover my weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds. sks
Salty <>
Unmentionable, , , Wed Apr 9 19:08:28 2003


weeeeeeeeeeeeed
Babs <>
Garden, , , Wed Apr 9 16:51:24 2003
Flob a lob.
Mayor <>
Springtime at Burbo, , , Wed Apr 9 16:48:31 2003
Yes, generous chaps these West Africans Bill. I am presently waiting for several million guineas from them. What with the price of gunpowder these days every little helps. Yug
Yug Sekwaf <Hung@drawnquarters>
, , , Wed Apr 9 12:09:02 2003
Don't encourage him, Yug, before you know where you are, you'll be getting e-mails telling you he is the son of the former ruler of Togo, and he'll make you rich; all you'll need to do is pay a few small death duties up front. Don't want you fawking out your hard-earned pennies for nothing...

On a more interesting note, key Igbo's handle into Google. Seems he's out to get the world record "guest book entries"
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 9 03:07:24 2003


Couldn't agree more, Ig old chap. Guys are treated far too harshly, especially in Autumn, and people should keep off.I mean, what did grass ever do to deserve special notices? Yug
Yug Sekwaf <Gun@powderplot>
Tower, Oflondon, , Tue Apr 8 14:39:19 2003
keep off guys
igbokwenu <igbokwe@yahoo.com>
lome, lome, togo, Tue Apr 8 12:04:01 2003
And your point is, Frog?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, , , Tue Apr 8 08:31:16 2003
Remeber Deir Yassim.

Fifty-five years ago this month.

Begin at Begin and you shall look no further!!

Al-Nakba
Al-Nakba <Al-Nakba@diaspora>
Deir Yassin, , Palestine, Tue Apr 8 05:30:44 2003


WAKE UP!! WE ARE BEING CONNED!!

SADDAM DELIBERATELY GASSED THE KURDS, RIGHT?
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (iv)
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (v)
Thucydides, the Athenian historian, wrote in his account of the Peloponnesian War, "The way that most men deal with traditions, even traditions of their own country, is to receive them all alike as they are delivered, without applying any critical test whatever. So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand."

THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Tue Apr 8 01:24:19 2003


Which Venezuelan coup? What effect does it have on the price of coffee in South Road?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 7 21:11:14 2003
In Topsy Turvy land

You can do-oo whatever you want

And it's one of the rules

That you don't go to schoo-ool

And no-one ever says "no"...
Old Songs <>
never die, , , Mon Apr 7 21:05:55 2003


War? What war? Venezuelan coup? Is JJ OK? Torchy, Torchy the Battery Boy,He's a clever walkie-talkie toy....... Topsy Turvey Land ~ sigh.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Mon Apr 7 18:59:10 2003
A war you say, young William? Will the damned Boche never learn? JB
John Burns <Jonb4'aol.com>
Home, , , Mon Apr 7 18:14:18 2003
Torchy, Torchy the Battery Boy

He's a clever walkie-talkie toy

Press my switch, see my bulb start to gleam

It's the most magic light you've ever seen.

Any more favorite themes songs needed?
Old Songs <>
never die, , , Mon Apr 7 15:17:44 2003


BABS!!!! Torchy The Battery Boy???!!! My hero too, second only to Twizzle - Gerry & Silvia Anderson's earliest creations, y'know. I always knew that you had inate good taste and sense! Love,
John Hodge <john@plazacinema.org.uk>
Brighton-Le-Sands, , , Mon Apr 7 14:34:52 2003
Keep boilng froggy, makes cents to me - mommy
Billy's Ma <>
Grace St. Gladstone Dock, , , Mon Apr 7 14:09:59 2003
THERE WAS NO VENEZUELAN COUP, RIGHT?


THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 13:51:48 2003
FROG YOU ARE A BIGGER FASCIST THAN BUSH, AND A BIGGER TERRORIST THAN BIN LADEN!!!

There, that's cleared that up...

instead of mindlessly cutting and pasting articles on subjects about which you apparently know nothing (otherwise you'd be writing your own stuff and not plagiarising that of others!) why don't you do what the grown-ups do and post a url.

For those of you who don't know what I mean, Frog stole all this stuff from:

http://www.americanfreepress.net/01_21_02/German_Spy_Says_U_S__Wrong/german_spy_says_u_s__wrong.html

Bottom line is, you've won places on the list of nearly all the types I hate because

a) you don't dare use your own name, which makes you a coward.

b) you're a plagiarist, and that makes you a thief.

c) you're a terrorist; you ram your (and more often, other peoples) opinions down our throats without asking if we want it.d) You're a sad loser; you're posting this stuff to the Crosby Channel, for chrissakes!!! look at the sort of posters TCC has. Most of them don't know there's a war on!

MInd you, I suppose that you realise that if you were to go out and play "open debate" with the big boys on one of the fora where this is acceptable, you'd be gobbled to bits in seconds, so maybe TCC is what you can handle.

Sad git.

Or did Von Bulow train at Seaforth Barracks in the '50s?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 7 12:56:17 2003


WAKE UP!!! WE ARE BEING CONNED!!!

The German newspaper, Der Tagesspiegel, recently interviewed Andreas von Bülow, the former head of the parliamentary commission that oversees the German secret services, about the terror attacks of Sept. 11.

Von Bülow, who was interviewed by AFP in early December, said the provocative Tagesspiegel interview, published on Jan. 13, was the first time the German press had asked him about the problems surrounding the attacks.

“The planning of the attacks was technically and organizationally a master achievement—to hijack four huge airplanes within a few minutes and within one hour, to drive them into their targets, with complicated flight maneuvers,” said von Bülow in the Tagesspiegel interview. “This is unthinkable, without years of support from state intelligence services.”

This led the interviewer to call von Bülow “a conspiracy theorist.”

“Yeah, yeah. That’s the ridicule from those who prefer to follow the official, politically correct line,” von Bülow responded. “Even investigative journalists are fed propaganda and disinformation. Anyone who doubts the official line is called crazy.”

Since Sept. 11, “public opinion is being forced into a direction that I consider wrong,” von Bülow said. “I wonder why so many questions have not been asked. Normally, with such a terrible event, various leads and trails appear and are discussed by the investigators, the media and the government: ‘Is there something here or not? Are the explanations plausible?’ In this case, that is not happening at all.”

Before a government goes to war, it must first establish who the enemy is, von Bülow said. “It has a duty to provide evidence.

According to its own admission, it has not been able to present any evidence that would hold up in court.

Concerning the video evidence, von Bülow said: “When one is dealing with intelligence services, one can imagine manipulations of the highest quality. Hollywood could provide these techniques. I consider the videos inappropriate as evidence.”


THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 02:32:17 2003


Von Bülow, who controlled the budgets of German intelligence from 1969 to 1994, cannot understand why Congress has not opened a formal investigation into the attacks and the failure of American intelligence agencies to prevent them.

“There are 26 intelligence services in the U.S.A. with a budget of 0 billion, which were not able to prevent the attacks,” von Bülow said. “Officially, there is nothing.” he told AFP. “They say that they didn’t have any idea that this would happen.”

While four planes had been hijacked “for more than 60 decisive minutes, the military and intelligence agencies kept the fighter planes on the ground,” von Bülow said, “however, 48 hours later, the FBI presented a list of suicide attackers. Within 10 days, it emerged that seven of them were still alive.

“Why has the director of the FBI not taken a position regarding these contradictions? Where did the list come from, why it was false? If I were the chief investigator in such a case, I would go before the public on a regular basis, and provide information on which leads are valid and which are not,” he said.

“And what about the obscure stock transactions? In the week prior to the attacks, the amount of transactions in stocks in American Airlines, United Airlines, and insurance companies, increased 1,200 percent. It was for a value of 5 billion. Some people must have known something. Who?”

Although von Bülow told AFP in December that he believes that the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, is behind the Sept. 11 attacks, such political discussion is beyond the pale in German journalism.

ISRAEL KNEW?

When asked by Tagesspiegel who might have known about the attacks, von Bülow’s comments about apparent Israeli culpability and the agenda of Israel’s Ariel Sharon were deleted.

Israel is protected in the German media, in which any criticism of the Jewish state is stifled. This is be cause of “the special relationship” between the two states.

However, the Israeli agenda has gone forward as a result of the Sept. 11 attacks.


THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 02:31:57 2003


“Don’t believe the Arabs—they are foes,” is the message behind the “brainwashing” being done by the U.S. government and the unquestioning mass media, said von Bülow.

“With the help of the horrifying attacks, the Western mass democracies are being subjected to brainwashing. The enemy image of anti-communism doesn’t work anymore; it is to be replaced by peoples of Islamic belief. They are accused of having given birth to suicidal terrorism.”

The image of the new enemy comes from Zbigniew Brzezinski and Samuel Huntington, two policy-makers of American intelligence and foreign policy, von Bülow said. “Already in the middle of the 1990s, Huntingon believed, people in Europe and the U.S. needed someone they could hate—this would strengthen their identification with their own society. And Brzezinski, the mad dog, as adviser to President Jimmy Carter, campaigned for the exclusive right of the U.S. to seize all the raw materials of the world, especially oil and gas.”

In his analysis of political processes, von Bülow said, a global map of civil wars and conflicts coincides with the locations of these strategic minerals.

“The same is the case with the third map: nodal points of the drug trade,” he said.

The huge raw material reserves of the former Soviet Union, as well as the pipeline routes, are now at the disposal of the United States and Britain.

The fact that the events of Sept. 11 “fit perfectly in the concept of the armaments industry, the intelligence agencies, the whole military-industrial-academic complex,” von Bülow says, is “conspicuous.”


THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 02:31:19 2003


“What has gone on, and goes on, in the name of intelligence services, are true crimes,” von Bülow said. He is the author of Im Namen des Staates, a book which documents some of the criminal activities of the CIA and the German intelligence services.”

Von Bülow, who told AFP that “95 percent of the work of intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation,” pointed to the false leads that were apparently planted to incriminate Arab terrorists in the attacks. These leads, he said, were like tracks left behind by “a herd of stampeding elephants.”

The abundance of such obvious clues, such as Mohammed Atta’s passport, which mysteriously survived the crash and explosion that allegedly destroyed the shock- and fire-proof cockpit recorders, were like the German childrens’ game Schnitzeljagd, or Schnitzel Hunt, in which small bits of paper are left behind as clues for the children, von Bülow said.

Atta’s passport, which he had reported as having been stolen long before Sept. 11, amazingly reappeared unburned and intact on top of a pile of rubble near the World Trade Center, according to Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Atta, the suspected leader, allegedly left Portland for Boston on the morning of Sept. 11, in order to board the plane that later hit the World Trade Center.

“If this Atta was the decisive man in the operation, it’s really strange that he took such a risk of taking a plane that would reach Boston such a short time before the connecting flight. Had his flight been a few minutes late, he would not have been on the plane that was hijacked. Why should a sophisticated terrorist do this?” von Bülow said.

“They made payments with credit cards with their own names; they reported to their flight instructors with their own names.

They left behind a rented car with flight manuals in Arabic for jumbo jets. They took with them, on their suicide trip, wills and farewell letters, which fell into the hands of the FBI, because they were stored in the wrong place and wrongly addressed.

Clues were left behind, like in Schnitzeljagd, which “were meant to be followed,” he said.

When asked what he would do, von Bülow said: “My task is concluded by saying it could not have happened that way. Search for the truth.”
THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 02:30:21 2003


Having a Rolls is no demonstration of style. A friend of mine, somewhat prominent in the diamond industry showed how all his money couldn't buy him style when he had his "Silver Lady" recast in gold! I ask you? Uncouth, or what?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Sun Apr 6 22:30:16 2003
Andrew old chap. Welcome to the inner circle. Does your chauffeur prefer to drive a Bentley or a Rolls?
Lord Elphus <notgivenouttoyoucommomfolk@poshparts>
, The Mansion, , Sun Apr 6 20:46:40 2003
Actually Mons. Hoi Polloi, I live in a pyramid.
Andy Rameses <>
Burbo, , , Sun Apr 6 20:11:45 2003
Tired ? No way most of us can't get enuff self-agrandisment. Cowardly to slag folk off whilst hiding behind a fake name.The MP should be honoured ~ did you invite him to the Brooke your self-agrandismentness?
B A bs <south@port>
, , , Sun Apr 6 18:46:53 2003
Anyone else getting tired of the self-agrandisment of the link-detached Hightown upstart? Shook hands with an MP? And?
A N Other <Hoi@poloi.com>
, , , Sun Apr 6 18:32:11 2003
Andy,(Worshipful Mayor), Question - a). How much did you win? - b). Are you going to post a photograph to prove your hobnobbings? - c). Did you wear your chain of office and the required hat? A win will cost you a round at the "Beaches" Brooke re-union by the way.
ffrank <>
Near to the "Woodbine" race track, , Home of the "Queen's Plate", Sun Apr 6 17:07:44 2003
The weather was beautiful and the fillies quaffing champers even more beautiful. As an added bonus The Mayor (literally) bumped into MP Dobbin Cook and shook his hand to congratulate him on his anti-war stance. It was interesting that a couple of weeks ago (before he resigned from the Cabinet) he probably would have had heavy security around him. But there was little Dobbin wondering around by himself looking a little lost. Anyway, important Noo Labor-Burbo relationships were established and Mr Cook graciously agreed to cut the ribbon at the Burbo Summer Fete.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Beechers Brooke, Aintree-with-Burbo, , Sun Apr 6 08:40:49 2003
Uncle Frank: I went to Aintree once to protest the insanity of the (GRAND ?) NATIONAL. It is Cruelty in the extreme to have horses blind jump with no chance of avoiding a disastrous fall. All protesters, myself included, were evicted by the police on the orders of some fat bag by the name of Mrs. Topham who allegedly owned the track. Unfortunately we were easily identified by our St. Mary's blazers. Orders were issued banning us from the Aintree area for life. Now, fast forward about 30-odd years. A well known gangster from Canada ( with financial involvement in the AINTREE TRACK, horses, and a liquor empire), pulled one of his "fast ones" on the Prince Of Wales Hotel in Southport where he and his wife were staying prior to a Grand National event. According to his fraudulent claim, someone allegedly broke into the room and allegedly stole jewellery worth over 150,000. And guess who had the pleasure of investigating the fraudulent claim?
ffrank to Uncle Frank <>
, , From Canada to Crosby, Sun Apr 6 02:24:36 2003
Although I have lived in Crosby all of my life, some 78 years, I have only once been to The Grand National. I think it was in 1949. There was no telly coverage and people turned out to see such events, live. The press reported that 250,000 had turned up on that particular day. I and my wife, then my girl friend, and a couple of others went and entered the course near the canal turn. People were milling about everywhere. In fact it was so crowded, that the only sight of anything to do with the race was the top of the head of a couple of jockeys as they cleared a jump near us! I remember too that in the evening the four of us went to The Empire theatre in Liverpool to see a musical called the Song of Norway with a story build around the music of Grieg. That really was an enjoyable day out and one which brings back very happy memories whenever I think about it.
Uncle Frank <>
Crosby., , , Sat Apr 5 19:52:35 2003
Whilst all the nooze concentrates on brutality, greed and conquest, let us remember those creatures far more intelligent than rogue species h**o sapiens performing today downwind of Crosby: the gee gees at The Grand National
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Bonnie's Tip: make breakfast not war, Aintree-with Burbo, , Sat Apr 5 08:20:11 2003
While the world watches the bloody and illegal invasion of Iraq, the right wing government of A Sharon contiues its relentless terror campaign against defenceless Palestinians. Only yesterday a 14-year-old boy was shot in the back by Israeli soldiers. How longer must this obscentiy continue?

It's interesting to note that Elliot Abrams, former Central American aide in the Reagan admin and convicted criminal, is now in charge of the Palestinian/Israeli peace process in the present US government. (I hear you ask...what peace process?)
Al-Nakba <Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt etc>
, , , Sat Apr 5 05:15:18 2003


Firstly Uncle , then Kanuck ffrank.

i) If it's OK with you?

ii) yes ffrank of Brighton-le-Sands, it was later called 'Mamas' as you can see in the photees from St.nicks. I believe at one time (before the Bore Worr) it might have been just a sweety shoppie. A better chippy, according to my old man, was the one in St. Johns Road. I think there is another one which sells Chinese, (a funny thing to sell with all this SARS about)up on Bridge Road (which didn't have the Bridge) close by where Scotts and the Co-op had their shop! regards c.b-s.
Claude Salty-B******s <>
Blundellsahhnds, , ("Crosby B-S"), Fri Apr 4 23:59:00 2003


This is the CROSBY site right? then please consider what earthly relevance some of your postings have for ME, a long standing Crosby resident. Have any of you outsiders stopped to consider your impertinence in making gratuitous postings? Please show some good manners and stop abusing our hospitality. I don't disagree that some items may be of interest i some other quarter, but please, please, not on this site. Got it?
Crosby Fellow <>
Crosby, , , Fri Apr 4 20:51:35 2003
Salty, It looks like all Frogs are trouble. Especially the one that we have in Ottawa eh? How's the freezing rain down your way today? The Toronto area is like a skating rink.
ffrank in Toronto <>
, , , Fri Apr 4 17:23:04 2003
Salty, Re your posting about St. Nicholas School, Did you ever dine on the fine fare from "Spit in the Pan?" ( The Chippie next door to St. Nick's)
ffrank in Toronto <>
, , , Fri Apr 4 17:15:04 2003
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (i)
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (ii)
THE AMERICANS WOULD NEVER DO THAT, RIGHT?
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (iii)
THIS WAR IS *NOT* ABOUT OIL, RIGHT?

THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Fri Apr 4 16:48:58 2003
Bill,

it must be something in the UK phych. when I was a kid in the 40's we even collected money in little red boxes for a new SCHOOL! - St. Nicks C of E. My brother, later actually got to go to the place, but I am not too sure whether it did him any good. At least the "Douche" had by then retired as headmaster and Miss Paine was a distant nightmare only infrequently remembered after a supper of gorgonzola. sks
Salty K. Sam <>
Due South of TTO, , , Fri Apr 4 16:06:09 2003


Makes you wonder why we bothered to collect money for the missions...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 4 15:50:36 2003
GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.GUYS PLEASE KEEP OFF FROM HERE I HAVE VISIT HERE OKAY.
MUGU <MUGU@PRINCE.COM>
LOME, LOME, TOGO, Fri Apr 4 15:00:44 2003
My sister in law used to live in Musker Street ~ Endbutt Lane.I'm a child of the colonies(the only street still standing)but was too young to remember any of it!Andy ~ how can you compare HIM to Torchy ~ my childhood hero.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Thu Apr 3 21:51:00 2003
Dear Bill, The address http://www.multimap.com/map/places.cgi?quicksearch=musker+street&client=public&advanced= puts a Musker Street off Endbutt. BTW, I sent a couple of articles about the ongoing conspiracy theory phenomenon. They both came back. Must I conclude that your Dutch servers don't like our tropical electrons?

As for Rotfmlao, I had to Google it up. I was able to add the ! effect unaided.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Thu Apr 3 21:27:20 2003


You've beem smokin' agin, havent you Billy! You know yus always gits obstefferous wens you do! Naughty lad. Mommy.
Bills Mother <>
Shakespeare St. - Down by Gladstone, , , Thu Apr 3 20:56:19 2003
ROTFLMAO!!!Very true, Bat, but...

Actually, you know the world is going to hell in a hand basket when:

1) Anyone cares who's the best rapper

2) Anyone notices the colour of a sportsperson rather than their talent

3) Anyone gives a flying feck who the the winners of any sailing race are

4)Anyone bothers about Franco-American relations

5) It surprises you when ANY nation calls for a peaceful solution to a conflict.

Musker Street? Isn't that in the "Colonies"? It's been a while...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 3 20:27:58 2003


You know the world is going to hell in a bucket when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the Americas Cup, the French accuse the US of arrogance and the Germans don't want to go to war.
Bat Hunter <eaves@nightffall.org>
Musker Street, Crosby, Sefton, Thu Apr 3 15:03:56 2003
"Roonaldo". Do you think he might want to play for the Reds by any chance?
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Sacre Bleu!, Burbo Boot Camp, , Thu Apr 3 07:49:10 2003
OK Boiled, young fellah me frog, you passed the hidden test, and your follow-up would do Fox Mulder proud, but you've still managed to avoid my original question...

If I were an advocate of conspiracy theories, I'd say you had something to hide (apart from who you really are...)

And I await, along with my fellow readers, for the "Crosby Denouement"

A nice f'rinstance would be that Eric Blair sailed to Malaya on a ship whose captain lived in College Road, or that said ship sailed from my own belovčd Gladstone Dock.

The denouement par extraordinaire would be that Barbara Bush was none other than Bagwash Babs, Queen Of The Caradoc, who met George Senior when he was in Crosby back in the fourties, convalescing from injuries received, at one of those nice houses on Marine Crescent!!!

(I think I've been jj's advocate just a little too long<;0> )
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 2 16:19:31 2003


Bill, yep, showed Amelie when it was out over here early last year (or was it late'01?) terrific stuff I agree. You can also see the wonderful Audrey Tautou in Stephen Frears' ace "Dirty Pretty Things" & the French film "A La Folie...Pas du Tout" (over here it was entitled "He Loves Me...He Loves Me Not"). I envy you coming to Kieslowski afresh. We've got one of our Oxfam Film Nights tonight.. showing Michael Moore's superb "Bowling For Columbine" apposite timing, to say the least. Love & peace
John Hodge <john@plazacinema.org.uk>
Waterloo, , , Wed Apr 2 16:13:40 2003
Hi Heather, Sorry to hear about Angela's father, Vince, passing away, he was a good man. I do not know your mum's sister who lives in Ilford Ave., but the Connor family I do know!! Have you moved permently to Oz or do you intend to return to Blighty some time in the future.
Mike <>
, London, England, Wed Apr 2 15:02:18 2003
The irrefutable Burbo-wind-Mothercare-renewableenergy-Iraqigolddealer-WWII research cannot be refuted. And, for those of us blessed with post-graduate qualifications in universal geometry and who therefore know that the non-Boolean thrungeric protobolic requirement for anyplace to be the centre of anything is that important parameters pass through such place, the heretofore creeping conviction of Crosbegian galactic significance is confirmed as right on the cashlies. This latest and very C.R.A.P.-worthy jewel is the last in a long line of suchlies, all crossing, meeting, converging or whatever, at Crosby and therely underlining the probable proximate emergence of a Unified Crosbylegian Theory of Centricity, being the final blow to anysoever claims of superiority entered by second-raters from wherever, including wherever just popped into the reader's mind, be he whomsoever he may. Or she, in birdmode cases arising.

From herely on, therefore, we oughta be looking into the essence of what we're the quintessence of, thusly to regale the world with it. At a reasonable fee, to be distributed and doled out to any bone-I-find poster at yearly Brooke Board Meetings, such poster for the use of. But yer've gotta show or be originally proxied with panache. FYI, I am cuurently well-stocked with ISO-9000 appro'ed panache certificates in both 'overt' and 'low-key' versions, mostly valid on the day. Orders to be placed on or before dispatch and pre-paid to my bank, under an assumed dame.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, etc, etc, Wed Apr 2 14:41:11 2003


Ike's warning was in his farewell speech to the American people, Jan. 17, 1961. Unfortunately, his successor tried to act on the old soldier's message and, er, "regime change" was achieved in Dallas. This of course could not be described as a coup, since the Chief Justice of the United States served-up a 26-volume bedtime story, involving bullets not subject to the known laws of physics, indicating that a conveniently-dead "lone nut" was entirely responsible...
5 years later, RFK met a similar fate, killed by an 8-round weapon that managed to fire 14 bullets, wielded by a lone nut who never got closer than 3 feet *in front* of him, whereas the autopsy indicated a point-blank shot *behind* the left ear.....

THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Wed Apr 2 14:25:28 2003
I learned this from John Kelly (I told you he was useful, if you pay attention)

First you do a <, then a P, then a >.

Gud luk
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 2 13:17:25 2003


wot keys do yeh ave to punch to git em blanc spaces betwean them werds?
duffer <duffer@class e>
, , , Wed Apr 2 12:36:17 2003
Beautiful rhetoric, Boiled Frog. Once again, Eric Blair has been proven right, as we observe the Macchiavellian machinations of the military-industrial complex against which Eisenhower warned us in, if I recall rightly, 1956. (heady days, what, Korea, Suez, Chindits gettin' uppity, Mau Mau attacking bwana, Patrice's mob duffing up nuns you name it , we can make a war out of it!)

But I read it, and re-read it, and then, in thie interest of fair play, I re- re- read it, and again and again the question rises:

What's your effin' point? That the first victim of war is truth? Been there, done that, etc.

The trick here is to wander of into the wildest reveries, and suddenly give everything a "Crosby" twist. Birkdale? Where's Birkdale?

BTW, talking of the wonders of t.v., one of the best comments I've seen far was "we started talking about Tony Blair, but I couldn't remember the Arabic word for "poodle"."
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 2 12:18:51 2003


Now there's an idea. In the interests of Burbo Homeland Security, maybe I should set up a Guantanamo-Burbo Boot Camp to chain up, blindfold and put in cages anyone who opposes "civilised values" and "freedom". But then again, maybe not.
Andy Melia <>
Burbo, , , Wed Apr 2 08:24:17 2003
People eager for frontline news from American/Anglo forces (and in-bed(ed)reporters)are reminded to turn up bullshit detectors to MAX !!!! A.Con.Artist
A.Con.Artist <@bullshit advisory bureau>
, never-never-land, , Wed Apr 2 06:19:42 2003
On UK TV there is an excellent documentary series called "Secret History". The title should be self-explanatory - they explore some of the more "obscure" areas of recent history:- the untidy loose ends, facts that are only just coming to light, re-appraisals of hitherto accepted truths. It could be classed as "revisionism" in its broadest sense. Such endeavour is at once imperative and instructive. Carlyle delared that "History is the distillation of rumour." Others astutely observed that the Victors write the history books. Jefferson enjoined that "we cannot be both ignorant and free." In the 1950s Vance Packard lifted the veil on the black arts of "The Hidden Persuaders." Buckminster Fuller identified the "invisible power structures", "The Power Elite" and the "hidden, underlying causes" of wars. Churchill alluded to "The High Cabal." The motto of Mossad is "by Deception shalt thou make war." Birkdale-boy AJP Taylor offered us his treatise on "How Wars Begin." In "fiction", Osborne, for example, scored a bullseye with "A Patriot for me." Yet despite multiple well-documented examples, frequently disclosed by power-structure INSIDERS *themselves*, the couch-potato masses are conditioned to squeal "conspiracy theory" at the first dangerous sign of heterodoxy.

Our mass-media continue to offer up comic-strip "analysis", - childrens' bedtime stories about the "axis of evil", "regime change", "weapons of mass destruction", "evildoers", "the coalition", "war on terrorism", "liberate the iraqi people." This REALITY CONTROL and DOUBLETHINK has a familiar ring, doesn't it?

WAR IS PEACE.
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Wed Apr 2 04:31:49 2003


jj. There has to be a Burbo connection in all this somewhere, you say. And as usual you are quite correct.TCC has been ignoring the Burbo-Iraq-Texas axis of good, renewable energy down on the windfarm. Selim Zilkha, son of an Iraqi gold trader who fled Iraq during WW2, first exploited wind, in its infant stages, when he founded Mothercare in 1960. Now, among other ventures, his Zilkha Renewable Energy of Houston, Texas, through its investment in Seascape Energy, will be developing the windfarm on TCC's great sandbank. Although direct links have yet to be found to any of the infamous hawks in Washington, Mayor Andy would be well advised to moderate his comments and to protect Burbo's longer term economic interests rather than beating about the Bush and showing personal animosity towards the Prime Minister: otherwise he may find his favourite football team has been given by the French government to a Gadaffi, as a goodwill gesture, once the present troubles are over.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Tue Apr 1 23:30:27 2003
Good on yer Bonnie! But Andy, you simply agree with the implied question inside my question: most people seem to be clear on what the 'anti' option entails and run to it in droves but, to date, I've not seen any comment on Americanism, before yours that is, where you state you're pro- but not pro- the one that's making the running at the moment. That's perfectly reasonable. And a first. So what I'm on about is not the hoary old 'anti-americanism' argument you imply but rather the content of the stuff we're pro or anti. Which is what you make a start on by citing the Thatcher example and then going on to the toxic Texan approach where I feel the concentration exclusively on oil blinds its advocates to other driving issues and allows the opponents of all democtratic stuff to make spurious advances in the blind spot so created. It's as though there were some inner need to focus energies on big industry in general and the oil guys in particular, who have often been arrogant and historically rarely taken much care to improve their public relations or present their case properly. Naturally enough, they are now they are paying the price but the widespread blinkering thereby produced is exploited to the hilt by real bad guys with an agenda that includes the elimination of society as you know it. Exaggerated? I would have thought so too, not so very long ago but no more. Ironically, while Americans walk down an Orwellian and restrictive road with their Homeland Security concept, they are putting their guys on the line for a 'freedom' ever more diffusely percieved in America. Maybe our discussion of the most beneficial and authentic take on Americanism will be of help to them in working their way out of this morass.

So there it is: what are the anti's anti and what are the pro's pro in the diverse Americanisms on offer? In today's ambiance, it might be worth clearing that stuff up a tad. Not forgetting that there has to be a Burbo connexion in there somewhere too.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, etc, etc, Tue Apr 1 20:59:35 2003


Aw shucks, jj: not that old "anti-American" chestnut again? Maybe it's time then for a bit of cool Burbo wind amongst all the hot air.

Millions of people we're anti-Thatcher and what she did to Britain. Why? Because they were patriots.

Millions of people are opposed to coward Torchy the Battery Boy, the Rt. Hon Member for Texas North, and what he is doing in 'our name'. Why? Because they're pro-Britain and all it once stood for.

I happen to be pro-Amercian but completely "anti" the Toxic Texan and what his oil-hungry, conquest-greedy thugs are doing by turning the US into the world's biggest ever rogue state. And Bonnie the Dog is, at this moment, wagging her tail in agreement.
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, Burbo-Against-Noo, , Tue Apr 1 20:15:50 2003


J.J. No cash please. Oil will do.
ffrank in Canada <>
, , We are neutral (or should that be neutered?), Tue Apr 1 15:49:01 2003
OK, OK. Keep on talking about the Plaza if you wish, Hodge.

No, I haven't seen the latest Laconte, but that's because my girlfriends' ex discovered a hiatus in my education. I mentioned recently, "en passant", that I had just watched, and appreciated, Kieslowski's "Trois Couleurs" on Dutch telly. Next thing you know, he's presenting me with his copies of the "Dekalog" so I'm working my way through that lot.

Mind you, just downloaded "Amelie" from the net, as it is my favourite film of the last year. Strongly recommended for anyone who likes a good belly laugh. (meme-toi, mon brave Voltaire)

Shown it at the Plaza, yet John? Bit of a prob scheduling summat like that in Crosby, 'cos it's not akshully Art House, just a comedy "une peu ordinaire", but cos it's in French, it must be art, n'est pas?

and God bless jj, many happy returns of yesterday ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 1 15:45:36 2003


Dear Practitioners of anti-Americanism, supporters of LatAm revolutionaries and the Iraqi civilian casualties and Frog, You may like to know that, notwithstanding the biggest yanqui war machine in the history of yanqui man and a great deal of yanqui expenditure of yanqui military budgets, Venezuelan social advance under our great leader has won again, having managed to tot up a March murder figure of over 500 hundred innocent civilians (official figs), streets ahead of the dreadnaught yanqui machinery of war assembled in the Iraqi theatre. That'll teach 'em.

In all fairness, though, practising a culpable blinkered disregard of facts is no-one's exclusive bailiwick: In their own way, them yanquis are at it too, having been a figure behind the pressure to fire New Zealand's Peter Arnett from NBC. For stating facts. As has been said, all the good guys aren't good and all the bad guys aren't bad. As it always was. Poor Peter was out of a job for hours on end but is now at the Mirror. Blimey days!

And, by the way, what is Americanism actually, that I may know whether I am pro or con?

And guys, I see no actual response to what was written but a rather hackneyed enumeration of terms denoting personal attributes, attributed, as such tend to be, to me. Why me? Bearing in mind the global nature of our channel, I seem to be hogging the attributes market, possibly engendering discontent among others whose attributes, all blooming, fresh and much nicer, still get no channel mention, all because my attributes are too busy being attributed. To me. AARRGH!

Glad to see Voltaire still defending to the death the right to free speech. Bon sur toi, mon vieux!

Dear Ffrank, In all our capacities as longstanding TCC posters of no fixed ability but good standing, at least in the earlier evening, I think your plan of letting slip in privileged circles that TCC is buyable, to the benefit of all longstanding and goodstanding guys and dolls, is the best original idea we've seen in a month of irresolution and disarray on all sides. I can certainly find a home for whatever's coming my way. Where do you think we should start the bidding? And would that be in Euros or greenbacks?

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 1 15:29:54 2003


Bill, I know I'm a little tardy here, but re: your posting on 25th March, You can NEVER say too much about The Plaza! By the way Blue eyes, have you seen the new Patrice Leconte (Le Fil Sur Le Pont, Le Veuve De St.Pierre) L'Homme Du Train features the mighty Jean Rochefort & Johnny Halliday.
John Hodge <>
WATERLOO, , , Tue Apr 1 15:22:00 2003
My dear Voltaire,

sycophnantic? Moi? Pas du tout!

Seriously, though...John Kelly has a tendency to keep up to date with facts rather than take on board second hand drivel. He also has the capacity to lateral thought, which means he can see a lot of that which is "about to happen". And he sends me a substantial cheque every month to promote him.

Nah, Voltaire, I hold no particular brief for John, but of one thing I can assure you; everything he posts is his own work, and not the regurgitated opinion of A.N. Other.

AND...no matter how hostile his readers, he still has the guts to use his own name and e-mail addie, and not to cower behind a nym. And as any fule no, this is the group I despise most of all...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 1 11:49:44 2003


The Iraqi people would like to apologise to the American liberation forces for providing a distraction from your "friendly" fire incidents.

It was highly inconsiderate, not to mention inconvenient, of the seven women and children you killed in the car yesterday to offer themselves up as target practice.
Ann Apology <>
, , , Tue Apr 1 08:11:41 2003


Rough!
Bonnie <>
The (peace) Coalition Dog, , , Tue Apr 1 07:39:48 2003
Keep this up and CNN will want to buy out the Crosby Channel. We now rival Al Jazeera.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , CANADA, Tue Apr 1 04:54:19 2003
Bill: are we to take it from your sycophantic defense of the cold war warrior that to dissent with his viewpoint is uselsess because he is all knowing? I know he likes to sign off with some mention of God...but steady on!! Voltaire
voltaire <I disagree with your opinion, but...>
Rue da la free speech, Paris, France, Tue Apr 1 04:17:56 2003
Dear Frog, Previous post got truncated.(Thinks: Did I hear, "Phew!"?). There was a little beginning, possibly best outleft; with God and Murphy on the job, who knows? Sorry and all but still, most of the gist is there.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 1 03:51:23 2003


Foreign newspaper reports such as you may have access to, were all filed by guys who came in later. None watched in minute by minute as we who know the size and length of the roads and autopistas involved did, here in Caracas. None of the reports mentions the massive crowds, aunts uncles and children - i.e. a peaceful bunch, of some 750,000 plus - who opposed Chavez that fateful 11th of April, spontaneously marching downtown to the presidential palace, their original destination having been changed at the last minute. That's hardly a pre-arranged coup plan. Everyone is mesmerised by the prior democratic election which, supposedly, excuses all subsequent activity, "Und mittlerwiele, wie geht's mit euch, Herr Adenauer, Herr Brandt?".

So no, I'm not with the Agency but your mention of that or obtuseness as the only options your mindset can process could be seen as displaying an infelicitously inflexible set of cultural expectations about Latin America on the one hand and a certain shyness about doing one's own thinking on the other. I'll give you a clue about the apparent impasse: under Venezuelan law, the use of arms to seize power is a 'coup' requirement. In the manifest absence thereof onb the day, even our court had to go the way it went. The only arms in evidence were those of government agents and the armed forces, brought out to fire on an undefended crowd, many members of which I know so anyone's 'We know better' won't cut the mustard. (while the shooting was going on, Chavez scheduled a so-called 'chain' broadcast, monopolizing all national TV and radio to prevent any live news transmission, btw). The formal military refused to fire on citizens and that triggered a sequence where Chavez rolled later into the Caracas military fort, Fuerte Tiuna, that night, in the company of the Archbishop of Merida, Msgr. Baltasar Porras, who reported that Chavez himself had insisted that it be on record that he came volutarily. Given his unpopularity, the military fort, where he could be protected, was the obvious place to go, on security grounds.

There's' plenty more but I can imagine that Janet's nails can only take so much of this stuff, so I'll knock off. If you'd like, e-mail me at jakelly@telcel.net.ve or call me on +58 212 979 3241, (office) from about 1.30pm, new UK time. It's always nice to talk ot a fellow Crosbegian.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 1 03:42:02 2003


jj, are you with the Agency or simply obtuse? Did an unelected person other than Chavez unlawfully take power, albeit briefy, in April 2002, before Chavez was restored to his rightful position? YES or NO will do...

Just because it was an *unsuccessful* coup does not make it any less a coup...

You'll be telling us Iraq is about WMD next...
THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Tue Apr 1 00:36:23 2003


Just broke a nail as I had to scroll so fast through some posts!
Janet <>
Washington, , Tyne and Wear, Mon Mar 31 21:09:15 2003
Hey John, interesting "statistics we'd rather forget here in Holland #2" is that the same statistic applies to Dutch casualties in WW2 ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, , , Mon Mar 31 15:51:04 2003
Dear Ann, Aw, come on Ann! How long with all this? No-one wants Iraqis or anyone else to die 'needlessly' but we can't deny that the war is on and there will be civilian casualties and calling them 'collateral damage' won't assuage the sorrow of families of the dead. But one could have used similar arguments about stopping Hitler too. That would have been before he liberated over 20,000,000 oft forgotten Russians, to name but a few. (To put things in perspective, German figures give 8 of 10 of their own casualties as losses on the oft forgotten Eastern front).

Dear Frog, I looked at the stuff you cited there. I saw no mention of the very pliant supreme court's finding in a merits investigation of the military officers accused of the 'coup' that there was no merit for trying them of 'military rebellion' so, pace all your cited fellas, the official Venezuelan judicial finding has been reasonably quoted as dictating that there was no coup, as such, at all. On national TV, this decision was called 'Una plasta!' (A T**d! Imagine if Tony did that with the High Court) by the president. Thus fortified, the court has become its usual pliant self. The episode of April 11-13th was quite other though, at the time, many bought the government's story. As for the referendum mentioned in your guy's piece, that same court dictated the suspension of a perfectly legal consultative referendum (for 2/02/03) under the article 72 (see http://www.venezuela.gov.ve/ns/index.htm , top right, 'Constitución Bolivariana', under 'titulo III, de los deberes, derechos humanos y garantías' and whip it through an online translation service) whereof your writer is so proud and also that the referenda therein referred to must wait on the election of a new electoral council, members to be approved by the national assembly, but candidatures to be approved by ... a presidentially sanctioned panel.... The article also talks of a number of signatures needed for activating the various constitutional instruments: all those signatures were collected in a civil action on the same date, Feb 2nd, in a process called "El Firmazo", the "Great Signing Up". The court is now ensconced in its ensconcery, looking into one chamber's decision on a government request to declare whether the signatures are actually valid signatures as required under a signatures requirement for lotsa signatures that the government's constitutional framers never expected civil society to be able to produce, ever: seemingly, although the requirement has been satisfied and more, they are hard at it, seeking to invalidate the whole. Again. There are a number of other typically propagandistic misleaderies in the article, by the way.

Aw shucks, Bill. En, weet je, juist vandaag, precies an mijn verjaardag nummer twee en sestig! Bijzonder aangenaam von jou, oor!

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Mar 31 15:46:13 2003


I wonder if Eurostupid would cut and paste our sitting room. The wallpaper is looking a little tatty! JB
John Burns <Jonb4@aol.com>
Home, , , Mon Mar 31 14:57:23 2003
JJ, Greetings from Sweden, just over the water from that place made famous in a play by Billy S. It would appear that over the weekend much has been going on TCC. Has it been always thus or is this someone using the chanel as a sounding board for some v. strange notions. I hope it is a case of the later and we will not be getting a repeat performance.
Mike <>
, Helsingborg, Sweden (Pro Temp), Mon Mar 31 13:22:29 2003
Dear everybody but John Kelly:

please remember one thing: on the subject of Venezuelan oil and politics, jj is the man! He doesn't get his information from text books, or from the "Child's Garden Of Revolutionary Propaganda" websites. So if you want to show your ignorance of matters international, go ahead. Don't forget tho' the only reason he won't humiliate you totally is because he's a truly nice guy!

Just thought you should know...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, , , Mon Mar 31 12:59:19 2003


jj, try searching on VENEZUELA COUP...the results are, errm, interesting. One which addresses the constitutional points is here
THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 09:54:18 2003
A further apology from the Iraqi people, jj, you are absolutely right. We now wait patiently to be liberated by the, ahem, "coalition" state terrorists er, forces.
Ann Apology <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 08:11:58 2003
Dear Eurostupid, In the entrails of your diatribe, the substance of which I can comment on with regard to the paragraphs on Venezuela, I can tell you quite categorically that what you write about this country is patently out of keeping with th facts on the ground. Inter alia, and your Venezuelan constitutional expertise notwithstanding, an election can be held before the president's period comes to an end. And, as for US oil companies getting their hands on Venezuelan oil, that's never going to happen: all underground stuff is property of the state and as such, unsellable by anyone else but only exploited under some temporary licence arrangement written by the government and, historically in Venezuela, co-founder and architect of OPEC, very beneficial to the government. On top of which, the government of Hugo Chavez Frias, now accused of making contributions to Al Quaeda and supplying, training Colombian guerillas (as do the IRA) and providing releif camps for them, disarming the metro and state police in Caracas and Zulia State (the Lake Maracaibo area) barefacedly refusing to acount for 16 billion dollars of its budget of our money and still claiming to have sold three million barrels a day recently, up from lesser levels is unable show any deposits at all in the Central Bank since the 21st of January. That same government is now actively seeking for a reversion to an earlier setup, namely, one whereby, for a flat rate of $8 billion a year, Shell and Exxon would come back to run the Paraguana Refinery Complex, here the "CRP" and the biggest worldwide, because state oil company president Ali Rodriguez Araque, having fired 17,000 of the 40,000 oil workers, from the top down no less, cannot run the place himself. So they are trying to go back to the pre-nationalization pattern but with a setup better for the multinationals even than they had before the 1976 nationalization. If that's not giving up oil control to foreign interests, until recently, political treason, I don't know what is. It is compounded by the current operations of the rump company being run by our competitors, namely, staff from the Algerian state concern and Iranians. On the basis of theis new foreign influx, the president is touting his changes as, "At last, a truly national oil industry". Well Gee. Maybe he went to the some school where they teach that stuff.

In a word matey, I can assure you that whoever gave you this tripe was giving you tripe. You should have a bill for it somewhere labelled, "Of goods".

...& God bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Mar 31 04:10:54 2003


America's Bush administration has been caught in outright lies, gross exaggerations and incredible inaccuracies as it has trotted out its litany of paper thin excuses for making war on Iraq. Along with its two supporters, Britain and Australia, it has shifted its ground and reversed its position with a barefaced contempt for its audience. It has manipulated information, deceived by commission and omission and frantically “bought” U.N. votes with billion dollar bribes.

Faced with failing to gain U.N. Security Council support for invading Iraq, the USA has threatened to invade without authorisation (and Britain and Australia say they will go with it). They would act in breach of the U.N.’s very constitution, the U.N. Charter, to allegedly enforce U.N. resolutions.

It is plain bizarre. Where does this desperation for war come from?

There are many forces driving President Bush and his administration to invade Iraq, unseat Saddam Hussein and take over the country. One of the biggest is hidden and very, very simple. It is about the currency used to trade oil and consequently, who will dominate the world economically, in the foreseeable future - the USA or the European Union.

Alongside that is physical control of oil – Iraq’s and Venezuela’s in the first instance (the worldąs second and fourth largest reserves), but once America has a massive military force based in the Middle East in territory over which it has control, where will it end? Iran is already on the agenda, named by Bush as part of the “axis of evil”, and Saudi Arabia, with the world’s largest oil reserves and the home of Al Qaeda, would be the obvious step after that.

Iraq is a European Union beachhead in the economic confrontation. America had a monopoly on the oil trade, with the U.S. dollar as the fiat currency, until Iraq broke ranks in 2000, started to trade oil in the E.U.’s euros, and profited mightily. If America invades Iraq and takes over, it will hurl the E.U. and its euro back into the economic sea.

Besides ensuring the dollar remains the premier world trading currency, physical control of oil reserves is vital to the U.S. to ensure supply at affordable prices. The USAąs own oil reserves are very limited - it has capped wells to retain a viable on-shore reserve, but it would not last long - and because real world oil reserves are being rapidly depleted.

The invasion and take over of Iraq would make America’s position as the dominant economic power in the world all but impregnable.

It is the biggest grab for world power in modern times.

America's allies in the invasion, Britain and Australia, are betting America will win and that they will get some trickle-down benefits for jumping on to the U.S. bandwagon.

France and Germany are the spearhead of the European force - Russia would like to go European but possibly can still be bought off because of its current economic problems.

Presumably, China would like to see the Europeans build a share of international trade currency ownership at this point at this point to blunt the U.S.’s power while it continues to grow its international trading presence to the point where it, too, can vie for and share the leadership rewards.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:28:22 2003


DEBATE BUILDING ON THE INTERNET

Oddly, while there has been no question from the outset that the United Staters is after control of oil, little or nothing is appearing in the general media about the oil trading currency issue. Are key people becoming aware of it? What does the recent slide in the value of the U.S. dollar mean - are traders afraid of war or are they afraid there will not be war, in which case, the US$ will not be a great currency to have in hand. Despite the silence in the general media, a major world discussion is developing around this issue, particularly on the internet.

Among the many articles: Henry Liu, in the Asia Times last June, it has been a hot topic on the Feasta forum, an Irish-based group exploring sustainable economics, and W. Clark's The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War with Iraq: A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth has been published by the “Sierra Times”, Indymedia.org and ratical.org. Dr Colin Campbell’s Peak Oil, a presentation at the Technical University of Clausthal in December 2000, is a clear exposition of the world’s declining oil reserves.

This debate is not about whether America would suffer from losing the U.S. dollar monopoly on oil trading or from not gaining control of oil - that is a given - rather it is about exactly how hard the USA would be hit. The smart money seems to be saying the impact would be in the range from severe to catastrophic. For example, Charles A. Kupchan makes no bones about the parlous state of the U.S. economy versus the strength of the European economies in his The Atlantic Monthly article, The End of the West.

OIL DOLLARS

The key to it all is the fiat currency for trading oil.

Under an OPEC agreement, all oil has been traded in U.S. dollars since 1971 (after the dropping of the gold standard) which makes the U.S. dollar the de facto major international trading currency. If other nations have to hoard dollars to buy oil, then they want to use that hoard for other trading too. This fact gives America a huge trading advantage and helps make it the dominant economy in the world.

As an economic bloc, the European Union is the only challenger to the USA's economic position, and it created the euro to challenge the dollar in international markets. However, the E.U. is not yet united behind the euro - there is a lot of jingoistic national politics involved, not least in Britain - and in any case, so long as nations throughout the world must hoard dollars to buy oil, the euro can make only very limited inroads into the dollar's dominance.

In 2000, Iraq, with the world's second largest oil reserves, switched to trading its oil in euros. American analysts fell about laughing; Iraq had just made a mistake that was going to beggar the nation. But two years on, alarm bells were sounding; the euro was rising against the dollar, Iraq had given itself a huge economic free kick by switching.

Iran started thinking about switching too; Venezuela, the 4th largest oil producer, began looking at it and has been cutting out the dollar by bartering oil with several nations including America's bete noir, Cuba. Russia is seeking to ramp up oil production with Europe (trading in euros) an obvious market.

The greenback's grip on oil trading and consequently on world trade in general, was under serious threat. If America did not stamp on this immediately, this economic brushfire could rapidly be fanned into a wildfire capable of consuming the U.S.’s economy and its dominance of world trade.
I <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:26:40 2003


HOW DOES THE U.S. GET ITS DOLLAR ADVANTAGE?

Imagine this: you are deep in debt but every day you write cheques for millions of dollars you don't have - another luxury car, a holiday home at the beach, the world trip of a lifetime.

Your cheques should be worthless but they keep buying stuff because those cheques you write never reach the bank! You have an agreement with the owners of one thing everyone wants, call it petrol/ gas, that they will accept only your cheques as payment. This means everyone must hoard your cheques so they can buy petrol/gas. Since they have to keep a stock of your cheques, they use them to buy other stuff too. You write a cheque to buy a TV, the TV shop owner swaps your cheque for petrol/gas, that seller buys some vegetables at the fruit shop, the fruiterer passes it on to buy bread, the baker buys some flour with it, and on it goes, round and round - but never back to the bank.

You have a debt on your books, but so long as your cheque never reaches the bank, you don't have to pay. In effect, you have received your TV free.

This is the position the USA has enjoyed for 30 years - it has been getting a free world trade ride for all that time. It has been receiving a huge subsidy from everyone else in the world. As it debt has been growing, it has printed more money (written more cheques) to keep trading. No wonder it is an economic powerhouse!

Then one day, one petrol seller says he is going to accept another person's cheques, a couple of others think that might be a good idea. If this spreads, people are going to stop hoarding your cheques and they will come flying home to the bank. Since you don't have enough in the bank to cover all the cheques, very nasty stuff is going to hit the fan!

But you are big, tough and very aggressive. You don't scare the other guy who can write cheques, he's pretty big too, but given a “legitimate” excuse, you can beat the tripes out of the lone gas seller and scare him and his mates into submission.

And that, in a nutshell, is what the USA is doing right now with Iraq.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:25:03 2003


THE WORLDąS DECLINING OIL RESERVES

At various times in recent years, the world has been pleasantly surprised to be told that oil reserves are higher than previously thought. The message - the energy driven party can go on forever.

But world oil expert, Dr Colin Campbell, is firmly raining on that parade. The announcements were not about new finds or even reserves that were significantly bigger than previously known. Rather, they were about the public announcement of reserves that actually were known, technological developments which will allow a little more extraction from known reserves (but at extra expense) and some small finds.

In fact, he points out that the biggest oil finds date back to the 1930s and 1940s and that there have been no big new finds since 1965. Technological developments and new knowledge which it was supposed would aid the uncovering of massive new oil deposits have done the opposite - they have helped confirm the limitations of oil reserves. They have helped measure the reserves of existing fields and uncover some very small new deposits, but they have also made it clear that the conditions for oil simply do not exist in vast areas previously thought of as possibly harbouring oil.

And while more and more technological expertise has found less and less oil, consumption has been rising steadily, so today it is far in excess of the amount of new oil found. Peak discovery of oil was in 1965; production, checked in the 1970s by the oil crisis, will peak just 40 years later, in 2005, Dr Campbell predicts, then it will start to decline.

America has limited reserves, the North Sea has more, but not much, and both, but particularly America, have to contend with huge consumption that far outstrips their supplies. Africa, Latin America, Eurasia and most of all, the Gulf, are where the oil is.

Whoever owns that oil is set to profit as they hold the energy-hungry industrialised world to ransom.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:24:41 2003


THE U.S. SOLUTION

Americaąs response to the euro and oil shortage threat was predictable. It has come out fighting.

It aims to achieve six primary things by going to war with Iraq:

* Safeguard the American economy by returning Iraq to trading oil in U.S. dollars, so the greenback is once again the exclusive oil currency and is reaffirmed as the reserve currency for world trade.

* Send a very clear message to any other oil producers just what will happen to them if they do not stay in the dollar circle. Iran has already received one message - remember how puzzled you were that in the midst of moderation and secularization, Iran was named as a member of the axis of evil? Venezuela is on the receiving end of another nasty message.

* Safeguard the USAąs supply of oil by placing the second largest reserves of oil in the world under direct American control and putting itself in a position to control, through threat or actual invasion, the rest of the Gulf oil. The U.S. needs a secular, subject state where it can maintain a huge force (perhaps with nominal elements from allies such as Britain and Australia) to dominate the Middle East and its vital oil.

* Severely setback the expansion of the influence of the European Union and its euro, the only trading bloc and currency strong enough to attack the USA’s dominance of world trade through the dollar.

* Provide cover for the U.S. to run a covert operation to overturn the democratically elected government of Venezuela and replace it with an America-friendly military supported junta which would put Venezuelaąs oil into U.S. hands and ensure oil trading in U.S. dollars.

* Secure Israel’s position - the aim of an unlikely coalition of Christian and Jewish fundamentalists within the Bush administration which fits in handily with the power and economic ambitions of the hard-headed old conservatives in the back room.

Locking the world back into dollar oil trading would consolidate America's current position and make it all but impregnable as the dominant world power - economically and militarily. A splintered Europe (the U.S. is working hard to split Europe; Britain was easy, but other Europeans have offered support in terms of U.N. votes) and its euro would suffer a serious setback and might take decades to recover.

Physical control of oil would secure the supplies which underpin the high energy consumption U.S. economy and place the U.S. in a position to profit directly from higher world oil prices resulting from the growing shortage of oil, a further boost to its economy, while disadvantaging economic challengers by forcing them to pay more for energy.

Establishing a strong military presence in Iraq would enable the U.S. to avoid or reduce its military presence in what it sees as the unreliable Turkey, the politically impossible Israel and surely the next state in its sights after Iran, Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of al Qaeda and a hotbed of anti-American sentiment. The USA, with a stable military base in Iraq, no longer constrained by treaties and agreements such as it has had to negotiate with host nations to date or by the hostąs links with the E.U., would also independent of Europe and able to give the faint whiff of military threat to Europe itself.

America is making the boldest grab for absolute power the world has seen in modern times. It is hardly likely to allow the possible slaughter of a few tens of thousand Iraqis stand between it and world domination.

President Bush promised to protect the American way of life. This is what he meant.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:22:23 2003


AMERICA'S PRECARIOUS ECONOMIC POSITION

America is so eager to attack Iraq right now because of the speed with which the euro fire could spread. If Iran, Venezuela and Russia join Iraq and sell large quantities of oil for euros, the euro would have the leverage it needs to become a much more powerful force in general international trade very quickly. Other nations would have to start swapping some of their dollars for euros.

The dollars the USA has printed, the “cheques” it has written, would start to fly home, stripping away the illusion of value behind them. The USA's real economic condition is about as bad as it could be; it is the most debt-ridden nation on earth, owing about US2,000* for every single one of it's 280 million men, women and children. It is worse than the position of Indonesia when it imploded economically a few years ago, or more recently, that of Argentina.

Even if OPEC did not switch to euros wholesale (and that would make a very nice non-oil profit for the OPEC countries, including minimising the various contrived debts America has forced on some of them), the U.S.’s difficulties would build. If only a small part of the oil trade went euro, that would do three things immediately:

* Increase the attractiveness to E.U. members of joining the “eurozone”, which in turn would make the euro stronger and make it more attractive to oil nations as a trading currency and to other nations as a general trading currency.

* Start the U.S. dollars flying home demanding value when there isn’t enough in the bank to cover them.

* Cause the usual panic attack in the world financial markets and in no time, the U.S. dollar’s value would be spiraling down.

The question of oil ownership or control is longer term - but only in terms of as handful of years. If the USA does not make its grab now while it still has control of the oil trading currency and is still the world’s biggest economic power, the opportunity would be lost.

In a few years time, America will still be far and away the worldąs largest military power - its current stocks of weapons will see to that - but if it is on the economic slide because it failed to contain the euro’s growth as an international trading currency, the rest of the world would be in a much stronger position to stare it down and contain it.

For America, with an economy and life style wholly dependent on cheap oil energy, that would be a disaster.

President Bush promised Americans they could continue driving their petrol guzzling SUVs. An America lacking control of oil stocks in an era of declining oil production would have to park its SUVs and walk.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:21:55 2003


JUSTIFYING WAR

Obviously, the U.S. had to have some sort of cover story, a “legitimate” excuse to invade Iraq, so it began casting around for a reason to attack. That search has been one of increasing desperation as each rationalization has crumbled. First Iraq was a threat because of alleged links to al Qaeda; then it was proposed Iraq might supply al Qaeda with weapons; then Iraq’s military threat to its neighbours was raised; then the need to deliver Iraqis from Saddam Hussein’s horrendously inhumane rule; finally there is the question of compliance with U.N. weapons inspection.

We are now told that war must be prosecuted forthwith because Iraq has chemical and biological weapons the U.N. inspectors have not been able to find and that it may develop nuclear weapons in a few years, and if it does, it may supply nuclear weapons to terrorist groups. Further, failure to lay waste to Iraq now will encourage the proliferation of nuclear weapons and increased the likelihood of “rogue states” passing them on to unnamed terrorists.

The USA’s justifications for invading Iraq, supported by Britain and Australia, have been looking less impressive by the day. The U.S.’s statements that it would invade Iraq unilaterally without U.N. support and in breach of the U.N. Charter (constitution) make a total nonsense of any claim that it is concerned about the world body’s strength and standing.

The U.N. weapons inspectors have come up with minimal infringements of the U.N. weapons limitations - the final one being low tech rockets which exceed the range allowed by about 20 percent. But there is no sign of the so-called weapons of mass destruction (WMD) the U.S. has so confidently asserted are to be found. Colin Powell named a certain North Iraqi village as a threat. It was not. He later admitted it was the wrong village.

Newsweek (24/2) has reported that while Bush officials have been trumpeting the fact that key Iraqi defector, Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel, told the U.S. in 1995 that Iraq had manufactured tonnes of nerve gas and anthrax (Colin Powell’s 5 February presentation to the U.N. was just one example) they neglected to mention that Kamel had also told the U.S. that these weapons had been destroyed.

Parts of the U.S. and particularly the British secret “evidence” have been shown to come from a student’s masters thesis - now outdated.

America’s expressed concern about the Iraqi people’s human rights and the country’s lack of democracy are simply not supported by the USA’s history of intervention in other states nor by its current actions. Think Guatemala, the Congo, Chile and Nicaragua as examples of a much larger pool of U.S. actions to tear down legitimate, democratically-elected governments and replace them with war, disruption, starvation, poverty, corruption, dictatorships, torture, rape and murder for its own economic ends. The most recent, Afghanistan, is not looking good; in fact that war reinstalled a murderous group of warlords which America had earlier installed, then deposed, in favour of the now hated and deposed Taliban.


IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:16:09 2003


Saddam Hussein was just as repressive, corrupt and murderous 15 years ago when he used chemical weapons, supplied by the U.S., against the Kurds. The current U.S. Secretary for Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, so vehement against Iraq now, was on hand personally to turn aside condemnation of Iraq and blame Iran for the gassing. At that time, of course, the U.S. thought Saddam Hussein was their man - they were using him against the perceived threat of Iran’s Islamic fundamentalism.

Right now, as The Independent writer, Robert Fisk, has noted, the U.S.s efforts to buy Algeria’s U.N. vote includes promises of re-arming the military which has a decade long history of repression, torture, rape and murder Saddam Hussein himself would envy. It is estimated 200,000 people have died, and countless others been left maimed by the activities of these monsters. What price the U.S.’s humanitarian concerns for Iraqis? (Of course, the French are also wooing Algeria, their former North African territory, for all they are worth, but at least they are not pretending to be driven by humanitarian concerns.)

Indonesia is another nation with a vote and influence as the largest Muslim nation in the world. Its repressive, murderous military is regaining strength on the back of the U.S.’s so-called “anti-terror campaign” and is receiving promises of open and covert support - including intelligence sharing.

AND VENEZUELA

While the world’s attention is focused on Iraq, America is both openly and covertly supporting the “coup of the rich” in Venezuela, which grabbed power briefly in April last year before being intimidated by massive public displays of support by the poor for democratically-elected President Chavez Frias. The coup leaders continue to use their control of the private media, much of industry and the ear of the American Government and its oily intimates to cause disruption and disturbance.

Venezuela’s state-owned oil resources would make rich pickings for American oil companies and provide the U.S. with an important oil source in its own backyard.

Many writers have noted the contradiction between America’s alleged desire to establish democracy in Iraq while at the same time, actively undermining the democratically-elected government in Venezuela. Above the line, America rushed to recognise the coup last April; more recently, President Bush has called for "early elections", ignoring the fact that President Chavez Frias has won three elections and two referendums and, in any case, early elections would be unconstitutional.

One element of the USA’s covert action against Venezuela is the behaviour of American transnational businesses which have locked out employees in support of “national strike” action. Imagine them doing that in the USA! There is no question that a covert operation is in process to overturn the legitimate Venezuelan government. Uruguayan congressman, Jose Nayardi, made it public when he revealed that the Bush administration had asked for Uruguay’s support for Venezuelan white collar executives and trade union activists “to break down levels of intransigence within the Chavez Frias administration". The process, he noted, was a shocking reminder of the CIA’s 1973 intervention in Chile which saw General Pinochet lead his military coup to take over President Allende's democratically elected government in a bloodbath.

President Chavez Frias is desperately clinging to government, but with the might of the USA aligned with his opponents, how long can he last?
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:15:40 2003


THE COST OF WAR

Some have claimed that an American invasion of Iraq would cost so many billions of dollars that oil returns would never justify such an action. But when the invasion is placed in the context of the protection of the entire U.S. economy and of ensuring U.S. dominance of the world now and into the future, the balance of the argument changes.

Further, there are three other vital factors:
First, America will be asking others to help pay for the war because it is protecting their interests. Japan and Saudi Arabia made serious contributions to the cost of the 1991 Gulf war.

Second - in reality, war will cost the USA very little - or at least, very little over and above normal expenditure. This war is already paid for! All the munitions and equipment have been bought and paid for. The USA would have to spend hardly a cent on new hardware to prosecute this war - the expenditure would come later when munitions and equipment have to be replaced after the war which certainly will be short. But munitions, hardware and so on are being replaced all the time - contracts are out. Some contracts would simply be brought forward and some others would be ramped up a bit, but spread over a few years the cost would not be great. And what is the real extra cost of an army at war compared with maintaining the standing army around the world, running exercises and so on? It is there, but it is a relatively small sum.

Third - lots of the extra costs involved in the war are dollars spent outside America, not least in the purchase of fuel. Guess how America will pay for these? By printing more of the dollars it is going to war to protect just as it does for other trade. The same happens when production begins to replace hardware. Components, minerals, etc. are bought in with dollars that go overseas and exploit Americaąs trading advantage.

The cost of war is not nearly as big as it is made out to be. The cost of not going to war would be horrendous for the USA - unless there were another way of protecting the greenback's world trade dominance.

AMERICA'S TWO ACTIVE ALLIES

Why are Australia and Britain supporting America in its transparent Iraqi war ploy?

Australia, of course, has significant U.S. dollar reserves and trades widely in dollars and extensively with America. A fall in the U.S. dollar would reduce Australia’s debt, perhaps, but would do nothing for the Australian dollar’s value against other currencies. John Howard, the Prime Minister, has long cherished the dream of a free trade agreement with the USA in the hope that Australia can jump on the back of the free ride America gets in trade through the dollar’s position as the major trading medium. That would look much less attractive if the euro took over a significant part of the oil trade.

Britain has yet to adopt the euro. If the U.S. takes over Iraq and blocks the euro’s incursion into oil trading, Tony Blair will have given his French and German counterparts a bloody nose, and gained more room to manouevre on the issue - perhaps years more room. Britain would be in a position to demand a better deal from its E.U. partners for entering the "eurozone" if the new currency could not make the huge value gains guaranteed by a significant role in world oil trading. It might even be in a position to withdraw from Europe and link with America against continental Europe.

On the other hand, if the U.S. cannot maintain the oil trade dollar monopoly, the euro will rapidly go from strength to strength, and Britain could be left begging to be allowed into the club.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:12:40 2003


THE OPPOSITION

Some of the reasons for opposition to the American plan are obvious - America is already the strongest nation on earth and dominates world trade through its dollar. If it had control of the Iraqi oil and a base for its forces in the Middle East, it would not add to, but rather would multiply its power.

The oil-producing nations, particularly the Arab ones, can see the writing on the wall and are quaking in their boots.

France and Germany are the E.U. leaders with the vision of a resurgent, united Europe taking its rightful place in the world and using its euro currency as a world trading reserve currency and thus gaining some of the free ride the United States enjoys now. They are the ones who initiated the euro oil trade with Iraq.

Russia is in deep economic trouble and knows it will get worse the day America starts exploiting its take-over of Afghanistan by running a pipeline southwards via Afghanistan from the giant southern Caspian oil fields. Currently, that oil is piped northwards - where Russia has control.

Russia is in the process of ramping up oil production with the possibility of trading some of it for euros and selling some to the U.S. itself. Russia already has enough problems with the fact that oil is traded in U.S. dollars; if the U.S. had control of Iraqi oil, it could distort the market to Russia’s enormous disadvantage. In addition, Russia has interests in Iraqi oil; an American takeover could see them lost. Already on its knees, Russia could be beggared before a mile of the Afghanistan pipeline is laid.

Many other countries are also concerned by the rise in U.S. power. Martin Woollacott, writing in The Age (Melbourne, Australia) and The Guardian (Britain) reports on how the U.N. Security Council has become a vehicle for expressing global public opinion, and quotes The Wall Street Journal as suggesting that the U.N. weapons inspections have been less about containing Iraq as they are about containing the United States.
IT'S THE EURO, STUPID!!! <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 02:10:25 2003


Mike, The Hallmans were very good friends of mine. Angela was my best friend from age 4. I actually spoke to her on the phone at Christmas, she lives down south. Her father died unfortnately and her mum moved from Manor Ave but I spent most of my teenage years at her house. my mums sister lived in Ilford Avenue, the Connors. I have also heard from her brother Philip who is a head master, via Friends reunited. So in answer to your question, I certainly do remember the Hallmans and miss Angela very much.
Heather <>
, Perth, , Mon Mar 31 01:57:06 2003
somebody is killing the great reporters of europe....
hercule poirot <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 01:55:03 2003
PENTAGON READY TO KILL INDEPENDENT REPORTERS

The Pentagon has threatened to fire on the satellite uplink positions of independent journalists in Iraq, according to veteran BBC war correspondent, Kate Adie. In an interview with Irish radio, Ms. Adie said that questioned about the consequences of such potentially fatal actions, a senior Pentagon officer had said: "Who cares.. ..They've been warned."

Terry Lloyd...
Gaby Rado...

LEMMINGS...WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE... <>
, , , Mon Mar 31 01:41:51 2003


Dear Ann Apology, How long did the so-offended sarcastic community cry at the 'liberation' of 50,000 gassed men women and children when the gassing was being perpetrated by Saddam? How many outcries were there from the same people at IRA atrocities? Or guerilla atrocities in South America and Cambodia? Or the toned moralities of child soldiers in various countries of Africa? Or right wing military extremist and left wing guerilla atrocities in Central America? Or even something as close to home as the Irish habit of teaching the young to hate? This last, teaching the young to hate, has to be the worst sin of all. But I hear no outcry. I am sure we all mourn the dead as it has always been when the dead are mourned and the more so when they are innocent, caught between warring factions. But if you're into so-offended sarcasm, then begin at the beginning. Though, thinking on, since this goes back aways, you might like just to begin with the seventies aeroplane highjackers and killers from the PLO. Or maybe a little further back with the Jewish underground in Palestine, Menachim Begin et al.

It'll be a while before you get as far down the road as the latest 'brave lads' whose mission you so lightly sneer at. And, with that thinking consistency, you'll have to take extra care you don't get lost along the way.

Dear Canuck, what have the yanks been and gone and done now then? I've seen nowt. Whatever it was, I am sure that you guys will quickly work things out. Canadian objections to US political rheotics along the line, unlike French ones, have been reasonable and straightforward, from what little I've seen (so fill me in, on TCC or by e-mail). Over time on TCC, whatever the trend, and we've had a few, Canada comes out smelling of Arrow-headed roses. You're gonna be just fine: remember, the yanks are navigating unknown seas and rivers just as much as everyone else and demonstrating much of that clumsiness that so characterises us h**o sapiens guys. Except Jacques. In a different vein and on a for your info basis, revolutionary Venezuela now has 'Cold Squad' and another Canadian series on Telly. Nice shots of Vancouver and an unbeautiful but somehow intriguingly attractive red haired lady policeable. Just how much of a lady she is isn't actually glimpsed but production skill is such as to rouse many to wondering how they would perform if given access to the chance to find out.

Rene Descartes.

& ...God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Mar 30 22:19:33 2003


I think you can always rely on René for inspiration, therefore you can...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Sun Mar 30 22:17:44 2003
Mention Rene Descartes and I am yours!! You hunk!
Rex <>
, Liverpool, , Sun Mar 30 18:46:34 2003
Now listen here cow flop, or whatever your name is, Uncle f said no more B-S from the likes of Kanada, Eh! c.b-s.
Cecil Barrington-Smythe <>
Blundellsahhnds, , , Sun Mar 30 18:00:13 2003
Do you believe Blair and gang? Do you believe in Neo Bush and his gang ? The mighty USA have misread the tea leaves and now will lie their way out of it. All the countries that resisted their warmongering bullyboy tactics will pay including their closest and strongest neighbour - Canada. This might, however be the begining of the end for the USA, this war could put them in an insolvent position as their deficet is already a major problem. Glad i'm from the great white north
B****r Tail <Johnny@canuck>
cowflop, , where der buffalo roam, Sun Mar 30 17:49:34 2003
SECURITY - re terrorist attacks. How good is the security over in the U>K>. We recently had a couple of people climb up the top of the Opera House and paint a No War sign. Maybe you all saw it on t.v. Great hullabullo caused as to how they were allowed to get through. Something about guards not being able to manhandle people now!!! As I am living in John Howard's constituency if anything happens we could be the prime target of a terrorist attack and I wondered if it is as big an issue over there as it is here?
Adele Powell <>
, Sydney, Australia, Sun Mar 30 14:13:42 2003
The Iraqi people would like to apologise for not being able to warmly welcome your brave boys at the moment. We're just a little busy digging out the bodies of the people whom you have kindly "liberated".
Ann Apology <>
, , , Sun Mar 30 09:26:59 2003
TOP SECRET. To All troops: The last order that read " release the gas"is to be disregarded due to a now shortage of underwear. The order should now read " Release the gas from the gas cylinders not from the stomach" Poppa Saddam, Palace #46, Bagdad
Dic Tator <Supreme@ Commander>
Bagdad, , M/East, Sun Mar 30 08:19:41 2003
So cute Rex, since the message was contained in a sentence which the "ack of inspiration inspired"..Jeez, you've been reading René Descartes, haven't you, you old sly boots?
Bill <>
, , , Sat Mar 29 23:33:55 2003
Rex, go back to your lamp post. f
Fido <>
Blundellsands, , , Sat Mar 29 20:56:43 2003
Nothing posted on here would inspire me.
Rex <>
Liverpool, , , Sat Mar 29 20:19:56 2003
Since the 'B' word has been mentioned, I would just like to confirm "Brooke III - The Reunion" will be on Saturday 28th June, 8pm. Cheap plonk, er...Champagne's already on ice.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
, , , Sat Mar 29 07:18:37 2003
About the Crosby Cop Shop, It disappeared along with another historical site, -a cottage with a thatched roof, when Sainsbury's decided to build their store, of all places, across a main road. The Police Station was oft referred to as the "Rozz Pen" and the Police themselves were known as "ROZZERS", "BUSIES" or "THE JACKS". During my term of residence in Crosby, the coppers rode Raleigh Roadsters around the Borough. However, that ain't so funny since the Toronto Police have a present day bicycle unit and, in fact, are considered to be an elite group. Here in Totonto we have parks and bicycle trails galore. All are extremely popular and need to be patrolled, just like the city streets. So if you come for a visit, bring your bike.
ffrank <>
, Posting from-, -(London, Ontario), Sat Mar 29 02:51:21 2003
I know Bill but I like to diversify onto the more light-hearted trivia!He he he ...
Babs <>
Triviaport, , , Sat Mar 29 01:39:58 2003
Babs, it was more that I was gobsmacked at my own typo than that I was searching for a definition...but thanks all the same ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, , , Fri Mar 28 23:58:17 2003
jackfield-pete ~ bought a tile teapot stand form their last summer..... never use a tea pot though !
Babs <>
teaport, , , Fri Mar 28 23:37:32 2003
queue ~ A line of waiting people or vehicles. When the British stand in queues , they may not realize they form a tail. The French word queue from which the English word is borrowed is a descendant of Latin cda, meaning tail. So there you go Bill!!!!
Babs <>
www.dictionary.com, , , Fri Mar 28 22:56:03 2003
Queque???
Bill <>
, , , Fri Mar 28 21:54:25 2003
Pete, I've just had His Worship and Good Lady to visit, and Jeannette intends to grace me with a visit round about Eastertide, so join the queque. Always welcome.

BTW for those exiles abroad:Sunday is mid-Lent Sunday, otherwise known as Mothering Sunday. Don't forget to ring yer mum. This is the real one, not the American Greetings Card creation...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Mar 28 21:53:21 2003


Oh yes, Crosby nick. Spent a couple of pleasant evenings there, falsely accused of being D&D. Memories!!
Oldlag <HM@ Pleasure>
, , , Fri Mar 28 21:19:14 2003
Just wanted to let all you old Brookites know I'm still here and logging on, although nothing has inspired me to post for a while. Bike shop near Coronation Park known as Turbutts, although run from mid 60's by Bill Nelson (?) (John H will confirm.) Trued many a wheel for me. Just enjoying an evening in the company of a cheeky Aussie red (sadly the liquid rather than female variety) and Planet Rock on DAB. Belated birthday greetings JH-the big one next, like me! Bill -is the invite still open? The time is ripe!
Pete <peterpsy>
jackfield on severn, , , Fri Mar 28 20:57:48 2003
That cop shop: the link I gave there for Mark Penninton's water colours paintings has a good one of the very station, opposite the church and the Pinfolds, beside the Ribble bus depot & what later became a squash club, as I recollect. I only remember being in there once. As police stations go though, it really did look like one, benign and forbidding by turns, as it were.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Fri Mar 28 12:42:36 2003


Introibo ad altare Dei; Ad deum qui laetificat juventutem meam... I enter upon the altar of God; The God that gave joy to my youth...

...et God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Fri Mar 28 12:35:39 2003


Hi Heather, Glad I got the right Biily King. Another question for you is do you know the Hallman's who live in Manor Ave. Have been to Oz on a few occasions but never got to Perth, Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne only and spent a few weekends in the Hunter Valley sampling some fantastic wine. It certainly a long trip with only a short stopover in Singapore.
Mike <>
, London, England, Fri Mar 28 12:11:26 2003
JJ, Thanks for being so understanding. Sorry my trips don't include South America but all other points of the compass. In fact am in Sweden next week. Boring job is Computer Consultant. Knew the old St Helen's v. well especially The Dean, learnt the basics of Latin there as an altar boy. When Fr. Carney moved to Thornton from St Helens to begin building St. William of York helped to train new altar boys. Also remember the old pre-fab hut used to be Christams parties for the kids of the parish also there were also plenty of apples from the orchard at the back of the presbetery.
Mike <>
, London, England, Fri Mar 28 12:04:53 2003
a SMOB reunion on this site is the last thing it needs right now
teddy <>
crosby, , , Fri Mar 28 09:22:10 2003
Bill, sorry I just read your note. I think the court hearing was about 1962/3 and I think you are right about the police station. I forgot that was there!! No wonder that copper had a beedy eye on dad, he was always around the back of the building checking doors(or so he said!)and definately had it in for King Billy. My poor mother used to cry and dad would laugh and say just ignore him.
Heather <>
, Perth, Western Australia, Fri Mar 28 01:51:56 2003
Hi Mike, Dad lived in Vale Road (Born there actually) until he married my mum and they moved into Dr Brennas. Im not sure what time frame we are in, wouldnt want to insult anyone but I was born in 1959 and dad was born in 1920. Came to Australia 5 years ago and have not yet been back. Very expensive when you go Perth to England but wonderful when you come the other way. I also went to St Peter and Pauls Adele, so did my dad. Left in 1970, passed 11 plus and went to Seafield (could never have afforded to get there any other way than being a bit bright on the day of the exam ) My poor parents trying to pay for the uniform!!! Dad deserved a medal especially as my brother Michael had passed the 11 plus the year before and yes you guessed it, he was one of those SMOBS (a really nice one though). I had a postcard of the crown buildings with that huge rock outside before it was moved to Coronation park! I wonder how they did that...or was it not really as big as I remember and had it really fallen from the sky!!
Heather <>
, Perth, Western Australia, Fri Mar 28 01:41:07 2003
Lunchtime footie in Corro Park.? How did everyone know who was on which side and which ball they were playing with when there were six games going on at once? A complete mystery.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Burtbo SMOB, c/o Charlies, , Thu Mar 27 19:13:21 2003
I walked past Ismay's old house today. Parked nearby was a bus belonging to 2nd Crosby Sea Scouts. Do hope the Titanic connection is not an omen! JB
John Burns <jonb4@aol.com>
Home, , , Thu Mar 27 18:27:19 2003
Hi Adele et al. I went to St P & P's junior school many years ago - though not quite as many as Mike!! The two storey 'house' behind the church was used as a school annexe for some years in addition to the main site on Liverpool Road. I spent two school years in the annexe before following the route of the red blazer. It was strange years later to have a drink in the bar (our school assembley room), being then used as a folk club.
Paul O'Gallagher <>
, Bristol, , Thu Mar 27 17:23:15 2003
Sorry folks: it looks as though you have to go through the site http://www.sunnyfields.freeserve.co.uk/crosby/ and go from there to the 'pictue gallery' link lower down the page. There are several very nice water clolours of an older Crosby there.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Thu Mar 27 14:27:41 2003


Dear Mike, Apology? There's no apology called for at all. You were close with the JK but no cee-gar. Besides, I can only feel that that other chap is an imposter. As for the secret society connexion, I am sure you know rule number one: always deny being a member! What takes you felix culping about the place then? Do your roamings ever have a momentary hiatus in Venezuela?

Dear Adele, How do you do? My brother, Anthony Kelly, went to Sts Pete & Paul's school a while ago, about 1954-57-ish. The school was there on Liverpool Road opposite Merch's Girls, wasn't it? At that time, the old St Helen's was still extant and run by a benign Fr. McGuire, 'dean' McGuire they called him and his claim to fame, though he wasn't a fame claimer at all, was that he had been a mate at the seminary of the lately burgeoning Archbish John Heenan who'd gotten the cathedral plans underway again and downscaled the whole from a pharaonic monolith to the Paddy's Wigwam more in keeping with the times, the pockets of the faithful and architectural propriety. That was the St Helens where there was also a 'youth club' set up in a pre-fab affair, just a bit down from the Crosby Cross located at the rear entrance path to the church. Mark Pennington has a painting of the cross there and the little cottages that graced that section of town available at http://www.sunnyfields.freeserve.co.uk/crosby/Picture%20Gallery.html. You can also find a map of Crosby, '1946-1970' at that site.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Thu Mar 27 13:06:53 2003


Hi Adele, I went to Sts P&P long time ago. I was there only for a couple of years before transferring to St Mary's Prep in Blundellsands. The teacher I remember the most was Sr. Rose and I think there was a Miss Healey there also. The rest of it is long forgotten but what I remember is of good times the green uniform.
Mike <>
, London, England, Thu Mar 27 10:56:40 2003
JJ, My apologies, the John Kelly I remember was in my 1st Year in 1956, ergo you are not the JK I knew. My name is in fact Mike and I do have a regular boring job which, felix culpa, allows me occasionally to travel the world. As far as I know am not part of any secret society except for being a SMOB. Hopefully will be trying to vist some old haunts in Crosby in the not to distant future. LDS
Mike <>
, London, England, Thu Mar 27 10:45:55 2003
Thanks for the welcome ffrank. I do know the church it was the one I attended and also know of the bar at the top of the 2 storey house. However, it is the s.s.Peter & Paul's SCHOOL that I attended. Do you remember the St Mary's school fete they used to hold annually? regards adele
adele <dreztbydel@bigpond.com>
, sydney, australia, Thu Mar 27 03:11:48 2003
Welcome Adele. However my welcome to you first has to be scrutinized, authenticated and sanctioned, proven, passed and posted by a resident of the fair Borough of Crosby. For two reasons; ...#1, I am an ex-pat living in the colonies and...#2, am a SMOB (as are a few other contributors to this site) No trumpets will be blown as to this fact because, as has happened on occasion in the past, all H**l will probably break out on here.And we don't want that. One war at a time please. Now about St. Peter and Paul's church. In my time there was a very young priest at St. P & P's-I've long forgotten his name. Let's call him Father Fanackerpan. Father Fanackerpan was a very good matchmaker. Attached to the church was/is a 2 storey building. It had/has a bar on the top level complete with snooker tables, dartboards and bartender. Those who knew about it (the St. Mary's lot did) would visit this oasis after the 11:00 mass. Down below there was a hall for bingo, meetings etc. but on Saturday nights it became a dance hall. Father Fanackerpan did a pretty good job of attracting the local Catholic lads so that he could introduce them to nice local Catholic lasses. Pass cards were issued under the name of the "Catholic Youth Society". I'm probably the first but not the last to welcome you.......
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, Toronto----------->, <----------C A N A D A -------->, Thu Mar 27 01:21:50 2003
Hello, newcomer but an old Crosbyite. read a lot of messages from SMOB's but how about some of the old timers from S.S. Peter & Pauls? would love to make contact with some of my old school mates.
Adele Powell <dreztbydel@bigpond.com>
West Ryde, Sydney, Australia, Wed Mar 26 21:25:42 2003
Dear Mike, My name is John Kelly. I left in 1959 after years with Dusty Coleman and Joe Rigby and Ray Boggiano and so forth. I am surprised you know me inasmuch as I am, as mentioned priorly here, a prominent member of the 'none of the aboves' in the great scheme of things, whereby I let slip that I am a notably successful undercover 'one or more of the aboves' in certain selected listings, usually under lock and key in Moscow and Langley and SOE archives. I was around for another few years, until 1963 when, dicily balanced in the varsitiables, I managed to present myself in studious guise, no small undertaking btw, to a place in Washington, whereafter I vanished from the local 'none-of' listings to take up a similar position on another, albeit foreign, one to continue my demanding 'sleeper' role. My original cover was that of a neither-here-nor-there student from the UK, and I was good at it, drawing no attention to myself. I was mentioned in dispatches as "unknown" but with a big "u". All this would make you one of the few knowing me: who are you working for? And none of that rubbish about having a regular job! We know that Pekin has a 'Mike' on the payroll!

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Mar 26 15:54:45 2003


JJ, Also played tennis in Coro Park, once even made it on the grass court! Also played football at lunchtime when I was at st. Marys. Think I might know you. I was there late 50's early 60's. Many great memories of the old place. Also my parents finally came to rest in that place just beyond the Nags Head.
Mike <>
, London, England, Wed Mar 26 14:56:36 2003
Well, that's what yer get fer goin' ter bed! What a crop! All this and Heather too!

Loved your post Heather: to hell in a bucket, to heaven in an old Ford car and hard cheese to the hindmost I had heard before but to school in a handcart indeed, that's an Irish solution to transport, getting the cart from here to there and making everyone else oogle-eyed at the scene, lunch sarney pack in hand and all! Great Balls of Fire!

Mike, I used to play tennis occasionally at the Coro Road Park courts, once even partnering Dot Courtney, a hang-about mate of the erstwhile Linda, now Lynda. And, yes, to your shame. It's great going back and not unbereft of oddness, seeing places where one was quite other, the longer away or the further, the 'otherer' yiz waz. But Lovely anyhow. When I've been, I've walked around, 'soaking up Crosby' and folk who've not been through the same separation think it's daft, especially as thay have Crosby on hand the whole time and see nowt at all to 'soak up', "Gertcha! Get soaked, more like!"

Dear Bill, I think the Escorial will be a bit cramped for Dave.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Mar 26 14:44:46 2003


Dear Bill, Replied, using auto-reply, to your mail of today and the message rebounded. Was ist mit dein Ding-eli?

And what's your 'phone number?

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Wed Mar 26 14:35:58 2003


Hi Heather, I do remember you and your dad. Am I right in thinking you also lived in Vale Road. I remember your dad used to make 'pebble guns' for the boys down the road so that we could go and have street fights with the boys from St. Lukes Rd. and other roads in the area. Coro Park was also a great place to hang out in those days especially the boating lake. When do you move out to Oz and have you ever been back to Crosby. It is many years since I left there and to my shame have not been back, but reading the comments in this guestbook I promise to return. I used to have a drink now and again in the Crosby and played snooker for The George when they had 2 snooker tables. Those were the days. Hope to read some more info. from you soon. You have certainly woke some people up!!
Mike <>
, London, England, Wed Mar 26 13:19:04 2003
Andy, I guess you smoked too much wacky baccy while you were here. It's renowned for making one pacifist

As far as Mr. B's concerned, I believe Johnny Dego is putting in a bid, and he and his missus will be leaving these shores to take up residence in El Escorial. Means we won't have to listen to his opinion on anything any more. Vaya con Dios, David
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Mar 26 13:10:45 2003


Hi Heather. Interesting story, especially when you consider that nowadays you prolly wouldn't go to court if you put gelignite under a phone box and blew it up. When was this? And does anyone think that the fact that there's no copshop in the village has led to an increase in crime?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Mar 26 12:52:46 2003
This "war" has reached a Noo low. None other than David 'Brainbox' Beckham was dragged out to give his "my thoughts go out to the families and loved ones of our brave boys and girls" twaddle. Oh, pass the sick bag.
Andy Melia <>
The peaceful haven of Burbo-on-Sea, Make tea not war, , Wed Mar 26 07:43:57 2003
Bill, I bought a "Dawes" racing bike from Myerscough's when they had the shop in the Crown Building. Got it fixed though by the old guy with the bike shop near Coronation Park. Ended up working at Raleigh in Nottingham for a while. Nottingham is also famous for Player's tobacco, Nottingham Lace, Sherwood Forest and Robin Hood, good beer and one of the oldest pubs in England, Ye Old Trip to Jerusalem which is at the base of Nottingham Castle. A lesser known fact is that there were (when I was there), a ratio of seven females for every male...............
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, Ontario-, -About an hour and a half from Niagara Falls, Wed Mar 26 02:09:40 2003
So much for my previous, obviously boring message I posted, I think this ought to be called the Soap Box Channel!!! Heres a bit of interest(well I think it is) My father, the late great Billy King went to court twice for having no lights on his bike and once for throwing a snowball at a phone box outside the Crown Buildings. I was only a child but I thought it was really funny. AND he used to take us to school on a handcart....go on, you are all jealous!! What a load of tripe you may say. Well Ive said it, so there. . No doubt some sarcastic message will follow. Tara for now.
Heather <>
, Perth, Western Australia, Wed Mar 26 02:04:50 2003
Have you noticed how the rude and abusive ones always use pseudonyms.

The thing I hate more than bigots, old farts and warmongers is cowards who hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

Keep on tuning in Uncle Frank, but remember that the ommadawns who go one about Bavarian Slices are the same ones who discuss world politics. And you can only say so much about the Plaza Cinema, or who got their bikes fixed at Myerscoughs...And, as they say in another forum I visit IRL, if you don't find it at the meeting, bring it with you next time.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Mar 25 23:32:55 2003


yuer tern Uncle F.
u no hu <>
B le S, , , Tue Mar 25 20:35:39 2003
Dear Clarence, I live in a country where the embassy has advised all Brit nationals to leave. I have little in the way of Brit contacts at all at all and welcome the opportunity to post from time to time. As for work, the country is virtually at a standstill so, yeah, we're back at it but doing a fair number of X-word puzzles, downloaded from English language newspapers. My common connexion with the fair couldna be commoner: I grew up in the borough and went to school in the borough and my parents both finalised their journey at the cemetry up there past the Thornton Grapes and the Nags Head. I can own to not having been born in the borough, being a native of Wavertree until 1947 when there was a cold snap like no other. My flatulence frequency wouldna qualify for any nicknames mind you, though hard to come by figures in that area are hard to come by so this would be a matter of opinion, being one depending on some generally acceptable standard of frequency beyond which the practitioner qualifies as one. Of them. Then comes the qualifier: if the phenomenon only sets in recognisably as such at a later age (except for the rare 'early onset'), then a practitioner just starting would, in the ranks of such practitioners, still be a young one; only decades later could the 'old' description reasonably apply. By which time, I shall be all dressed up for the Greek calends party.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, .., Vendles, Tue Mar 25 19:48:24 2003


Aren't you back at work yet jj, or have you finally retired? This would appear to be forum of many 'Old Flatulances', hopefully all with a common connection to the fair Borough, even with its Mills of Wind and four legged wild life.c.
Clarence <>
the Blundell at Sanhhds, , , Tue Mar 25 16:24:57 2003
Dear Charlie, If it's too much, how much is enough? If it´s twaddle, how come it has sparked such livliness? There is room for all, including hearing about daily details of Crosby life, doggles and sailing boats and all. What´s with the Burbo Turbos by the way?

As for the French connexion, do we have one? Did French cuisine really originate in Weld Blundell? Did Moliére(office keyboard)really go to the forerunning at the time of Merchant Tailors, majoring in French drama? Is there evidence of the Place De L'Etoile being a Cinq Reverebčres knockoff?

Dear Hotrock, Wade for me!

..& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Mar 25 15:38:37 2003


i has too agree wid Brother frank, der is farrr two much twaddle cummin from de likes of nort AND south America, even down under dese days. I would like, if you no wot I meen, winky winky like, prefer to speek about the mine feelds of lower le-sands, yu no werr the dogs roam free and leave their deposits all over de place. I wos out in me little yot de other day down at de mareena and the missus and i had a terrible time just dodgin doze thingies left by de unfettterred animals roamin in the glomin. itsa good job i has a big garden hose back home just for such eemergensies. c. b-s

ps. but keep it cumin old fella me lad we likes to heer about the historical bits of Crosby eeven if some of us go back to de boore wor times.
Charlie Bill-Smiff <>
Brighton-le-sands (the lower end), , , Tue Mar 25 14:17:05 2003


i think uncle frank has a point. but we have got plenty of burbo in a very back door way because reading all this is like wading out there. it is all very enlightening but some burbo by the front door would be welcome.
hotrock <hitrock@frog.org>
crosby, .., england, Tue Mar 25 12:49:47 2003
What's happening, man? ZZZzzzz....
Mayor <>
Burbo-with-Amsterdam, Rasta Coffee Shop, , Tue Mar 25 11:59:30 2003

Dear Albion; New world order. We have, at least speculations here in longsuffering Caracas are trending toward, "That's the end of the UN" and, over the road, in the other cafe, "The UN'll be stronger than ever now that this shakeup will make it easier to enforce resolutions. Just what they needed." How long before we hear, "Ariel, Ariel, wherefore art thou, Ariel?" Even Jacques and our continental French over-the-channellers, seeing their veiled venality progressively unveiled, have come through with an undertaking to help in the reconstruction work. "Bonjour, les gars! Je suis venu to sign some contracts paid for by sombody else mais, Mon Dieu, wash your 'ands please first after tout ce dirty travail you 'ave been at, alors!" "Up my jumper? Qu'est que c'est, 'up my jumper'?"

But the new order won't be an overnight thing and, as I mentioned before, this war, which was going to have to be fought, is only step one. The Saddam phenomenon is alive and widespread. Having seen what we have here, I'd say it's incumbent on all to start looking at what they stand for, bearing in mind that not all the good guys are good and not all the bad guys are bad. In other words, Mal in Aussie, there's only realpolitik. There is no other.

Dear Mr. Blum, With all your stuff, there, you fail to mention that not even the Iraqis are claiming the sort of bombing casualties that you seem to take for granted. And have you any real idea what those populist movements were and if so, which ones? Whilst not seeking to hold a blanket brief for the US or anyone else, I would ask how much better off would all these folk be had their populist movements triumphed? Maybe you're right though: this could be the time for the socially concerned protesers to get out their snapshots of protest actions they've been in, against all the decades of Columbian terror explosions, surely more worthy of their attention than empty office buildings in Baghdad; and the ETA car bombs and remote control devices and the IRA atrocities that they can only have been very energetically upset about; and the ongoing marches for the dead of Lockerbie arranged by Moammar's mates in Libya, not to speak of undying concern for the British policewoman shot dead from the embassy in London. That must be a huge photo album. Yes, let's all be concerned about what's done in our names but let's all too be consistent about it.

If you would protest then - and protesters are more socially concerned and a necessary conscience for society, I am sure - choose your targets with consistent care and knock real injustice as opposed falling into a rut that often seems to be more a steam valve appealing to a surlyness and rancour that, in hearts truly harbouring generous concern for folk, however expressed, has no place at whatsoever.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, etc, etc, Tue Mar 25 03:41:51 2003


Dear Clarence, You manage to demonstrate in two lines an inability to spell that Uncle Frank effortlessly sidesteps in his post several hundred percent longer. Gee mate! I disagree with Uncle Frank's particular sentiment on this occasion but, as Bill and FFrank have been hammering out, dissent is ok. In fact, dissent is in large measure what it's all about. It can be hardhitting. It can be pleasant and firm. It can be all sortsa. But when it gets stroppy, then the stroppler reflects more on himself than owt else. Now, why would you want to do a thing like that?

Moreover, if a guy is an old anything, then the very qualifier implies there are young versions of same. And don't ever forget, the sole reason anyone is behind Uncle Frank is because they didn't get underway 'til after. Which means you're going the same way but, as in all things futurely, Uncle Frank's distinct advantage is that he's sure of getting to 77. You're not. I lay down my portmanteau.

Colonial twitterings? Ah Clarence, a turn of phrase that hardly becomes you though, at the minute, I can see that it's the flavour of the week.

Not to worry Frank: next week, it'll be another flavour and maybe more to your taste. On TCC, they do come and go rather.

..& God Bless
jj <jj>
ectc, etc, etc, Tue Mar 25 03:22:16 2003


Jimmy Carter, some years after he left the White House, was unambiguous in his agreement with such a conclusion. He said: "We sent Marines into Lebanon and you only have to go to Lebanon, to Syria or to Jordan to witness first-hand the intense hatred among many people for the United States because we bombed and shelled and unmercifully killed totally innocent villagers -- women and children and farmers and housewives -- in those villages around Beirut. ... As a result of that ... we became kind of a Satan in the minds of those who are deeply resentful. That is what precipitated the taking of our hostages and that is what has precipitated some of the terrorist attacks. "

The State Department recently held a conference on how to improve America's image abroad in order to reduce the level of hatred; image is what they're working on, not change of policies. But the policies scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist movements fighting against insufferable regimes. In the process, the US bombed about 25 countries, caused the end of life for over 8 million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize -- very publicly and very sincerely -- to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce that America's global interventions have come to an end and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the union but -- believe it or not -- a foreign country. I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to our victims and repair the damage from our bombings. There would be enough money. Do you know what one year's military budget is equal to? One year. It's equal to more than 0,000 per hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That's what I'd do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I'd be assassinated.


Stop This Evil War!!! <>
, , , Tue Mar 25 02:32:52 2003


If I were to write a book called The American Empire for Dummies, page one would say: Don't ever look for the moral factor. US foreign policy has no moral factor built into its DNA.

Clear your mind of that baggage which only gets in the way of seeing beyond the clichés and the platitudes. I know it's not easy for most Americans to take what I say at face value. It's not easy to swallow my message. They see our leaders on TV and their photos in the press, they see them smiling or laughing, telling jokes; see them with their families, hear them speak of God and love, of peace and law, of democracy and freedom, of human rights and justice and even baseball ... How can such people be moral monsters, how can they be called immoral? They have names like George and D**k and Donald, not a single Mohammed or Abdullah in the bunch. And they even speak English. Well, George almost does. People named Mohammed or Abdullah cut off arms or legs as punishment for theft. We know that that's horrible. We're too civilized for that. But people named George and D**k and Donald drop cluster bombs on cities and villages, and the many unexploded ones become land mines, and before very long a child picks one up or steps on one of them and loses an arm or leg, or both arms or both legs, and sometimes their eyesight.

But our leaders are perhaps not so much immoral as they are amoral. It's not that they take pleasure in causing so much death and suffering. It's that they just don't care ... if that's a distinction worth making. As long as the death and suffering advance the agenda of the Empire, as long as the right people and the right corporations gain wealth and power and privilege and prestige, as long as the death and suffering aren't happening to them or people close to them ... then they just don't care about it happening to other people, including the American soldiers whom they throw into wars and who come home -- the ones who make it back -- with Agent Orange or Gulf War Syndrome eating away at their bodies. Our leaders would not be in the positions they hold if they were bothered by such things. It must be great fun to be one of the leaders of an empire, glorious in fact ... intoxicating ... the feeling that you can do whatever you want to whomever you want for as long as you want for any reason you care to give ... because you have the power ... for theirs is the power and the glory.

The leaders of the empire, the imperial mafia -- Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney and Powell and Rice and Wolfowitz and Perle -- and their scribes as well, are as fanatic and as fundamentalist as Osama Bin Laden. And the regime change they accomplished in Afghanistan has really gone to their heads. Today Kabul, tomorrow the world. So get used to it, world. The American Empire.

WILLIAM BLUM...Rogue State - a guide to the world's only superpower
Stop This Evil War!!! <>
, , , Tue Mar 25 02:31:15 2003


Malcolm H. in Adelaide Australia: Just two comments based on your posting. 1). You are probably not aware, but General Noriega was captured by a Crosby lad ( The late James Clifford Anchor 111 who used to live on Endsleigh Road). He was the C.I.A. member responsible for the plan and at the time, he was reporting directly to the President. Comment #2). (And this one qualifies for posting on the Crosby Site). When the war was on and Liverpool was being hammered by the Germans (as well as other parts of the UK of course), families in Australia were allowed to each "sponsor" a family in the war torn British Isles. This meant that the Australian government would ship, on their behalf, a "care" package to the sponsored family in the UK. I can remember receiving these enormous cartons which contained a damn fine selection of Australian goodies. Canned fruit, canned meat, canned cream etc etc. To those fine people who participated in this generous program, I am eternally thankful. Are there any old farts on this site who were in the same predicament ? ie who were bombed and starved and then received hope from Downunder.......???
Frank in Toronto <>
, , CANADA, Tue Mar 25 00:53:59 2003
So 'Uncle Frank's just an old fart after all then? If some of us didn't read the Colonial twitterings - there wouldn't be any scriblings on th wall, old chap! c.b-s.
Clarence Bonkington-Smythe <>
Blundellsahhnds, , , Mon Mar 24 23:57:37 2003
All of these postings about Canada etc., may be of interest,to some of you out there, but this is after all,the Crosby site and I for one find it irritating to have to read through so much that is neither of interest or relevant in order to get to the postings which are really of interest to me, a Crosby resident of some 77 years. Now I suggest those of you who do not want to engage in the light hearted banter of such topics as the Burbo Scheme and Bavarian slices etc. i.e. the true Crosby tittle tattle should go away quietly and find some other wall on which to scribble your graffiti. Am I the only one who feels like this? No?, then support me and say so!
uncle Frank <>
Crosby, , , Mon Mar 24 19:54:36 2003
It's an interesting debate, and good to see on TCC, so long as there is respect for the men and women sent into battle and for the politicians who gave the order. There will always be advocates against war, of course, but it was not a gunslinging American who first coined the phrase "in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun", it was Chairman Mao. The crisis and war in Irak is not just about oil. It is about establishing a new world order from a New World perspective: what the poster from Adelaide has referred to as "the quest for the new American Century". Old Europe, starting across the Channel and ending at the Pyrenees, has every reason to fear this initiative. The recently liberated Baltic and East European nations, their curtains lifted, every reason to embrace it. And those usually reluctant Europeans, the British, the Spanish and the Portuguese, every reason to find themselves torn between their older Atlantic and newer European allegiances. Rearranging the words of the WW1 poet already cited in a previous posting: " when this war is done and youth stone dead ", it is to be hoped Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Blair, Aznar, etc and etc, "will toddle safely home", not "to die in their bed" but to work collectively to disengage, once and for all, their respective countries from the residual remains of that dilly dallying, fuddy duddy, hesitant, duplicitous old Europe, (a.k.a. France), the one that advocated nonintervention in Spain's civil war; could not commit to defend Czechoslovakia; tried to conduct WW2 in Scandinavia and the Caucasus and, as Vichy France, demonstrated a much greater willingness to fight other Frenchmen, the English and the Americans, than the Germans or the Italians. The same old Europe that in recent months has again reawakened all the old international prejudices about its national arrogance and selfishness. The ongoing quest for the new American Century will probably be characterized by further outbursts from the European left and the American right which will only serve to nourish mutual sarchasms (misspelt to reflect the gulf in the humour between those in favour of and those against the Pax Americana ). In the final analysis, as the new American Century progresses it will make greater sense to remain an American Dependency than to attempt to become a German Gau or a French Arrondisement.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Mon Mar 24 19:38:36 2003
ffrank,

read the book sujested - it will make you really feel like moving to the US! sks
Salty <>
Due south of that werld class TTO, , , Mon Mar 24 17:48:05 2003


Frank: It's nice to know that in these troubled times the US can rely on you as a friend. But I have to tell you that while the US may also be your friend today it could very easily become your enemy tomorrow. Just ask some of their erstwhile buddies: Gen Noregia;Osama Bin Laden and Sadamm Hussien etc. It's all about Manifest Destiny and realpolitik driven by Cheney, Rumsfeld,Wolfowitz,Lewis and Pearle (forget about Pres Shrub it takes him all his time to learn his lines!!). These guys mean business and if human rights, international law\relations and innocent civilians become "collateral" damage in the quest for a new American Century, too bad. (Same with the platitudes about spreading democracy:how can this administration talk about spreading democracy when the present Commander in Chief had to steal the election to become the 43rd president of the US!!!!)
malcolm hughes <mhughes>
, Adelaide, Australia, Mon Mar 24 07:54:10 2003
Frank: It's nice to know that in these troubled times the US can rely on you as a friend. But I have to tell you that while the US may also be your friend today it could very easily become your enemy tomorrow. Just ask some of their erstwhile buddies: Gen Noregia;Osama Bin Laden and Sadamm Hussien etc. It's all about Manifest Destiny and realpolitik driven by Cheney, Rumsfeld,Wolfowitz,Lewis and Pearle (forget about Pres Shrub it takes him all his time to learn his lines!!). These guys mean business and if human rights, international law\relations and innocent civilians become "collateral" damage in the quest for a new American Century, too bad. (Same with the platitudes about spreading democracy:how can this administration talk about spreading democracy when the present Commander in Chief had to steal the election to become the 43rd president of the US!!!!)
malcolm hughes <mhughes>
, Adelaide, Australia, Mon Mar 24 07:53:34 2003
Quite the Contrary, Bill. For Quebec to remain French and retain their language, culture and unique lifestyle as PART of Canada, to say the least, is something for Canadians to treasure.- And I certainly have no problem with that. However, when hockey fans in Montreal boo the anthem of our neighbour (the USA), our friend and biggest trading partner and so on, then I DO have a problem. Especially when, as Quebecers, they are Quebecers in Canada only. The Americans and the rest of the world see them as CANADIANS and Canadians do not stoop so low as to boo the American anthem.( And I thought that Quebec was part of Canada not part of France). Quebecers want their independence yet they want to retain the Canadian dollar, the Canadian passport and everything else like pension benefits that they can gain from. You criticize my stand against dissent yet my stand was that of a dissenter. Bill, I grew up in Liverpool during the bombing which was instigated by a group akin to Saddam Hussein's lot. He has got to go and the truth about his regime we be clearly visible after the conflict is over. If you want to march the streets of Amsterdam with an unruly crowd of so called "students" with flags, whistles, banners, megaphones and disguises, no one can stop you as we can do this sort of thing in the West. Just remember, we ( by "we" I mean the coalition forces-Canada excluded-) are doing the Iraqui people a big favour by ridding them of the evil gang that control their country. I can tell from your postings that you are an intelligent person and I have no intention of "getting your goat". On this site I think it best to debate issues like politics, religion and other sensitive topics sensibly and with respect to the views of all those who post. This is a Crosby site and not really the place to argue and upset people. It's OK I suppose to have a hot topic along with the usual silliness as this is what makes the site interesting. Cheers, and I DO respect your viewpoint.
Frank in Toronto <>
, , C A N A D A, Mon Mar 24 05:16:57 2003
What is this with this planet??? I have seen this sort of comment so often in the last few days and it is seriuously p.i.s.s.i.n.g. me off!!! I came across it on several U.S. sites, but somehow didn't expect it here. The "If they don't like it, why don't they go and live in..."(fill in the country of your choice) remark. Is dissidence forbidden nowadays? Do you have to agree with the status quo all the time? Frank,if you don't like the fact that part of Canada is francophone, why don't you go back to Crosby?

See how ridiculous your comment becomes when it expressed like that?In a preious posting you said that "Canada supported our boys". Fact is, that this is obviously not true for all Canadians. It's called democracy, and if you really agree with what "our boys" are doing in the Middle east, then you will know that they are doing it to create a democracy in Iraq. And if the Iraqis don't want it, they can leave...well, no they can't because it's their home...which is why this statement is so fatuous.
Bill <>
, , , Mon Mar 24 03:03:00 2003


Salty, I havent heard your local talk show host (John Michael on CKOC) lately. As you know, he is one broadcaster who calls a spade a spade. To him, black is black and troublemakers are troublemakers. He has been in trouble many times for saying it the way it is. He once referred to Canada as being a unilingual country that tolerates French. My opinion is that French is fine - east of Ontario since this was the deal that the British made after beating the French military in the squabble for Canada. The problem now is that the traditional ideals of our forefathers are being squandered by the likes of the misguided lot that we have in Ottawa today. And to the bunch of Frogs who booed the US anthem at the hockey game in Montreal a few nights ago all I can say is if that's the way you feel, pack your bags and move to France as the rest of Canada has a different opinion.
ffrank in Toronto <cfjm3>
, , C A N A D A, Mon Mar 24 02:45:45 2003
Man! The Mayor is on a bit of a high at the moment. Thanks to Bill of blue eyes fame, The Burbo-Amsterdam coalition has reached new heights of conciousness. The visit has proved an immense success and regular peace summits will, from now on, be held at The Rasta "Coffee Shop". ZZZzzz....
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
c/o Rasta Coffee Shop, Burbo-with-Amsterdam, , Sun Mar 23 20:42:10 2003
ffrank,

another little peeve of mine is the lack of free speech in this great (small minded )Country. See if you can get hold of a copy of a book doing the rounds a few years ago called "Bilingualism today, French tommorow". It is, as if every copy has misteriously self destructed - no doubt on the advice of the present Ottawa leadership. You can however buy all the smutt and filth you might want, at just about every corner store - strange Eh! sks
Salty <>
Due south of TTO, , , Sun Mar 23 15:10:10 2003


Just want y'all to know that pretty well all of Canada is behind "our lads" ( both Brits and Yanks and all the others on the same side), over there clearing Iraq of all those mustachioed beret-headed despots. Sure Canada has it's share of hippie era ban-the-bombers who, like sheep, allow themselves to be manipulated by protest organizers. Please note also that the Liberal government over here speak for themselves and not the general populace. What a big embarrassment for Canada that our government have hid their heads in the sand. (But not the sands of the Iraqui desert). Boy, are we living in primitive times.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , C A N A D A, Sun Mar 23 02:54:28 2003
Part I

Well, it seems to me, from here in Venezuela where Saddam's (and Moammar's) operatives are flowing in to help with dismantling the modern oil industry and all institutions, from the Metro police now without any squad cars, motor bikes or riot gear (taken away to disable their control of the regime's rioters) to the courts, along with the rump oil company that now pays its bills at a 30% discount - "Your contribution to the revolution, Sir," that, regardless of the clumsiness and the cloudiness owing to France's pre-session blanket veto ensuring there'd be no vote and so too making certain the issues would never become historically clear-cut, this is a war that was going to have to be fought sooner or later and, if later, at a time and place of the terrorists' choosing. Historically, such altercations are less bloody and shorter when earlier rather than later. And, whilst no man is island enough not to be diminished by the death of another, the fact is that this war is being fought by soldiers in deserts and not by suicide bombers at the Waterloo Park, The Plaza, the Cavern, Liverpool Airport Departures Lobby or wherever else. As for the bombing and the city part, even Iraqi government casualty figures are below the number of murder victims in Venezuela this week. Not to speak of the number aboard the Lockerbie jet downed by terrorists.

So I support 'our lads', regardless of why they chose to become our lads, and I think the implication that such support must be jingoistic or worthy only of cowards to be pilloried in the words of a signally civilised First War poet is signally dirty pool.

For background, I did access the website of the brilliant Alex Cox because I had earlier seen there some sentiments expressing a wish that 'everything should be free, especially food and public transport' (Blimey!--non-eating, unsalaried drivers of fuel-free buses on eternal roads!) and wanted to get the exact wording for purposes of this post. Well the site announced that, until the war is over, it is "on strike"! You can go to stopwar sites named there if you like but, for the duration, they are in a pout, so there. Heiliges, guys!
jj <jj>
jj, etc, etc, Sun Mar 23 00:45:28 2003


Part II

And the other detail, the one about the war being just about oil and D**k Cheney's greed: while few of us would choose to have our sons going out with D**k Cheney's daughters, as it were, if you're convinced that by pointing at oil, you've got to the root of the problem, you not only look no further but are blinkered to any contrary or additional evidence. In the case of this war, make no mistake, far from being purely about oil - a story concocted for and innocently swallowed by sky-pie mongers - this war is one step in a struggle to decide whether authoritarian absolutism will be running your children's school within a generation. Or not. You don't think so? Ask Andy Gilchrist.

No, while oil will loom very large the moment the guns of March are silent, it is not oil impelling this war, though it was solely oil impelling the French to queer the pitch. Not to look beyond the oil factor is be blinded by the that ploy and to play into the hands of those who would have you and all you stand for, inlcuding your right to object to the war, all slung in clink or simply shot. In other words, if you're into anti-war sentiment as a reflex reaction, often natural and refreshingly generous but equally often, unthinking, to the undoubted and multiple correctible flaws in the West - Enron, big business in its monolithic heartless incarnations (not all) and so on and so on - then, as arranged by the operatives skilled in these matters, you're not focusing on a) The price of doing nothing; or b) The irreversible flaws in the system you'll be welcoming in. All in the name of human rights. Reflected in some little mentioned human duties. (When was the last time you heard that phrase?)

As for the religion-referenced backdrop to all this, it is sobering to realise that Islam, founded a 'few centuries' after Christianity (in the UK, society's historical foundation), is being no more pigheaded and absolutist than was Christianity that same 'few centuries' ago. That gave rise to what we know as the 'Dark Ages'. Thanks, Christianity. The particular differences separating these two sectors of our societies then might more fruitfully be focused on as being two social approaches not very different but as out of sync with each other. A thought anyway, on the way to our coming to terms with living with our Muslim fellows in a free and open society.

When all is said and done and the flaws, blemishes and so on, are all clearer to everybody, we should be chastened enough to settle down to assembling that free and open society. That should be interesting, Ahmed, ol' fella.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, etc, etc, Sun Mar 23 00:44:11 2003


Ignoranus: good word for an acehole ;)
Bill <>
, , , Sat Mar 22 09:59:23 2003
I say tomato, you say tomäto, I say idiot and you say eejit, but before calling the whole thing off, I think ignoranus is the accepted word for describing someone who is young, stupid and an a*****e.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Fri Mar 21 22:09:16 2003
Bill: Diplomats and politicians are just as important in starting a war as soldiers are in finishing it. The Iraq fiasco is just another case of history repeating itself. Young Adolf Hitler learned, way back in 1912, from Irish friends of his sister in law, on the back streets of Toxteth, and in his bedsitter at 102 Upper Stanhope Street, that pacifism is simply undisguised cowardice. By 1926 he had worked this generalization into one of his speeches. This lesson, learned on Merseyside, served him particularly well, especially when he weighed up the resolve of his chosen enemies as they in turn exercised subtle diplomacy, squabbled over the use of words in resolutions, and contrived to support the man many of them ,( including an Irish American ambassador to the U.K.), believed to be the best defence against the anti-Christ of Communism....... that is until the late summer of 1939. Eventually an Allied soldier,( probably an American with European parents or grandparents), would stand in the ruins of a northern French village in 1944 and say, not without some well earned pride, " We sure liberated the hell out of this place".
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Fri Mar 21 19:58:19 2003
sorry, Al you were right! I did use the word "idiot" in my first post. Humble pie all round. I had meant to see "eejit" but this does't reduce the humiliation.

Also apologies to the squaddies who might have been offended.
Bill <>
, , , Fri Mar 21 15:36:51 2003


Nice try, Al. At no point do I suggest that "our" soldiers are idiots. I had assumed you were intelligent enough to understand that since I pointed out they were young, and since I pointed out that they are being recruited when they are still having problems deciding what clothes to put on, you would realise that I was reffering to the fact that recruiting campaigns are aimed, in general, at the young and naive.

I come from a long line of professional soldiers, and have at present a nephew who is a sergeant in an elite Dutch unit.

In this subject, as in others, I tend to speak on the basis of direct experience, rather than blowing bubbles.

I don't know you, Al, so I can't say that you don't know what you are talking about. I would, however suggest that if you want to have a discussion with me on this subject, you do it on the basis of adult rhetoric, and not by slinging insults.

war sucks, and as a general rule, we let children fight it. Hopefully, the real soldiers who lead them have enough sense to want to get themselves and their men out alive. This is not a motive which drives politicians.

BTW I see the marines have sustained their first casualties. 8 squaddies dead, and who killed them??? With allies that that, you don't need enemies.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Mar 21 15:31:21 2003


So now our soldiers are 'idiots' Bill? you really are a self-important piece of work aren't you.
al <>
, , , Fri Mar 21 10:02:20 2003
P.S. I'm not actually against war under certain circumstances, but the Iraq fiasco was set off because the Yanks couldn't catch Bin Laden, and since the plebs wanted a sacrificial towel-head for 9-11, Saddam was the only one who stayed still long enough.

You do not rid a people of an evil dictator by bombing the f.u.c.k. out of his "victims". You do get the oppurtunity to dictate what happens to 25% of the world's oil production, though!

Only advantage is that, after it's all over, there'll be a democracy in the Middle East, and that'll be a first.

What's the equivalent of a flying-pig in Muslim/Kosher countries?
Bill <>
, , , Thu Mar 20 21:00:27 2003


Well, Al, apart from the fact that a lot of scousers join up because there's sod-all else to do in Merseyside, I would suggest that you go sit outside the recruitment officce for a few days. If you see anyone over the age of 20 going in, it'll be a postal worker delivering mail

Most people join up when they're hardly in a fit state to deecide what t-shirt they're going to wear that day.

And I'm still waiting to see the recruitment poster which shows corpses supperating under the sun, as opposed to skiing, deep sea diving, and mixing with cool chickies. Most of the idiots who join up do so to "learn a trade".

(Like there's much call for master armourers in civvy street)

BTW, I don't know whether I should bother to point this out to you, Al, but I spent a fair bit of time in the Six Counties under the Queen's Colours, so bog off... ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Mar 20 20:54:07 2003


For those of you not aware, Claire Curtis-Thomas, MP for Crosby, voted with the government this week in favour of war against Iraq. MP's are elected to represent the views of their constituents. I don't believe Claire Curtis-Thomas made any reference to her constituents whatsoever - did anybody hear news of local meetings with the MP? Maybe leaflets? Did she invite any comments or discussion from those she represents? I'd like to think that my elected representative would be just that - representative. Do people in Parliament now believe that the constituency members of Crosby are all in favour of the war? In the light of this, I would suggest that Claire Curtis-Thomas is no longer capable of doing the job she was elected to do. Those of you who are members of your local Labour party can stop her from failing again by deselecting her as parliamentary candidate. Those of you who aren't members, either join and make your voice heard (it costs Ł24 and you have a say in who the next candidate should be), or vote for the Socialist Labour Party next time around. MPs are there to get your voice heard, not further their own political careers.
Davey <rose.lrb@virgin.net>
Formby, Liverpool, UK, Thu Mar 20 17:24:40 2003
people die because war is human nature - it always has been and it always will be. I'm not saying that i agree with it but it IS a fact, and the anti-war bandwagon has been rolling for a long time now. plus, this argument about people who support war having no right to do so if they are not directly fighting is absolutely contrived, and i have no time for it.
al <>
, , , Thu Mar 20 16:28:52 2003
Talks??? What talks were these then Al? Our views have nothing to do with appeasement, in fact, if you want a good example of appeasement...look no further at Mr Tony rolling over for Dubya. Just because we are against war, it doesn't mean we are pro-Saddam, I don't see why ANYBODY should have to die. The only bandwagon that i can hear a'rollin' is the one that marches to the jingoistic beat of those who support a war but don't have to fight it. The words of Siegfried Sassoon come to mind: YOU SMUG FACED CROWDS WITH KINDLING EYE, WHO CHEER WHEN SOLDIER LADS MARCH BY, SNEAK HOME AND PRAY YOU'LL NEVER KNOW THE HELL WHERE YOUTH AND LAUGHTER GO.
jh <>
, , , Thu Mar 20 13:59:57 2003
Torchy the Battery Boy and the Toxic Texan go to war over oil. The rest of the world were VERY unhappy. How many people have you killed today, Torchy?
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
UKville,, The Noo terrorist target, , Thu Mar 20 13:40:20 2003
why do people joined the armed forces Bill? it's not for the hotels and expense account is it? i chose to pursue a different profession and why should i therefore be criticised for supporting a war. the men and women who joined the army/navy/RAF knew the risks and decided it was what they wanted to do. you can't join the army and then complain when your country goes to war. i'll bet if you were made the head of a diplomatic talks you'd quite happily sit in your lovely peace garden and pretend the world is one big family, while the world planned to blow itself up in the meantime. i think your views are foolhardy and naive. talks are over. so get off your anti-war, appeasement band-wagon and grow up Bill, coz quite frankly i'm sick of hearing bullshit from people like you.
al <>
crosby, liverpool, , Thu Mar 20 13:03:40 2003
I agree Bill, I too havwe been on demoes for the first time in a number of years. may I humbly suggest that we replace Cherie's fizzog with an image of the great Alex Cox, anti-war demo ever present and all round genius. Strummer left us just when we needed him most,love & peace
John Hodge <john@plazacinema.org.uk>
Make tea not war, , , Thu Mar 20 12:50:33 2003
Claire: maybe it's none of my business, but could I suggest you remove the picture of ol' letter box gob until she distances herself from the policies of her insane spouse?

Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if Tony was represented at the various summits by some con-man or other.

I wonder if he isn't organising a second war in the area even as we speak. The only thing I do know for certain is that his son won't be getting involved in this one...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Mar 20 11:37:20 2003


The Mayor may just tag along too, Bill.
Andy Melia <>
Burbo-with-Hamsterjam, , , Thu Mar 20 10:32:40 2003
Nice one, Al.

I am a-political, therefore politics is not the motive...I assume you support the skirmish so much you are going down to the Army Information Centre in Bootle to sign on. Or are you like Tony and Dubyah; all in favour of war as long as it's some other mother's son who's getting shot at.

You're right. This is not a religious war, it's about oil. Nothing else. On Saturday, for the first time in years, I'll be tagging on at the end of a demo. I urge all of you to join it.

For the first time ever I'm beginning to realise that Margaret Thatcher was not the worst thing to happen to the U.K.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Mar 20 09:48:22 2003


First pre-emptive strike to alakhazar.
Little boys with big toys <>
, , , Thu Mar 20 07:12:48 2003
right, i'm back to say yes to peace - which means war on Saddam, and damn those who have said appeasement and patience is the answer - history is judged by the men who bravely commit to answer the call of war - my full support goes to tony blair and bush. and no, i do not like Bush but I agree with the war. not a religious war-i have no religion - bush is speaking, i must go
alakazar <>
, , , Thu Mar 20 03:15:28 2003
Dear Spotter, Indeed and of course! Linda Titchmarsh of Streatham House as she was and a fine addition ot the company, altogether. As for the witchchap, I guess that could be quite and experience! I had a dekko at Linda's page: really quite something, La Plante Productions, eh? I often wonder how some folk manage to fit so much in to a life. Power to her arm, though she seems to have plenty as it is! More than I, anywhat. Still, there's still plenty of room at the table, though. How about that lass, Yvonne Mitchell of timeless memory and unforgettable dressing gowns? Right up there with Virginia McKenna!

And what's with Gene Autry and his guit'?

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, etc, etc, Mon Mar 17 13:59:35 2003


May the road rise up

to meet you

may the wind be

always at your back

May the sun shine warm

on your face

And the rain fall soft

upon your fields

And until we meet again,

May God hold you

in the palm of his hand.

—an old Irish Blessing

HAPPY ST. PAT'S TO ONE AND ALL!

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, Venezuela, Mon Mar 17 13:45:08 2003


At the Mayor's "Peace Summit" in Yorkshire last week (Harry Ramsden's chippy, Guiseley) intelligence revealed that, after the Noo genocide, Iraq will be divided into three sectors. Leaded, Unleaded and Deisel.
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, BBB, Burbo Bank Bunker, Mon Mar 17 09:04:31 2003
Hello all you Crosby People! Very funny reading your comments. I was born in the Crown Buildings (well not in it) but we lived there for years. Dr Brenna was in surgery then. Just found an uptodate picture of the building, post office has gone I think and there was a shop called Myresco or something, cant remember the spelling, I was only a child.All I remember was that they sold and repaired bikes. So many memories, absolutely miss the place to bits.
Heather <>
, Perth, Australia, Mon Mar 17 05:57:16 2003
Dorothy: Happy St. Patrick's day to you ! They had the St. Paddy's parade in Toronto today (Sunday). Talk about the luck of the Irish, the weather has been ideal (10c) - the warmest day of the year so far. The parade was great, the crowds were huge and the GUINNESS was flowing faster than the melting snow. And about Skip Simpson, he deserves credit for turning a few of the contributors to this site, myself included, into the perfect little angels that we are!
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, , C A N A D A, Sun Mar 16 22:57:15 2003
Frank The one armed man was a sea scout leader at the headquarters in Holden Road!!
Dorothy Redman <dorothyredman@tiscali.co.uk>
Lydiate, Liverpool, England, Sun Mar 16 22:33:22 2003
Heraldo, Whenever I hear mention of the CROSBY HERALD I,er, get a little hot under the collar. You see, on one of my rare visits to the Borough I brought over from Canada some photographs of historical value. In the mid fifties I worked at the Regent cinema. Just prior to my departure for Canada in 1956, I had a few photographs taken of the staff for posterity. Well about 30 years later I brought some of the pictures back and decided to LOAN them to the Crosby Herald people thinking that they might like to print these pictures in the paper. I provided all the names of the staff who were in these pictures. One of the persons in one of the photos was Harry Procter, the chief projectionist at the Regent. Harry was a prominent figure in the Crosby community. Anyhow, the pictures never appeared in print until about 10 years had gone by. The caption was something along the lines of "This is an old photograph of the Regent staff from the fifties or thereabouts. Does anybody have a clue as to who these people might be?" Well, there's one or two of my pictures finally I thought. Now it would be nice if the Herald were to return the originals like I asked them to.
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, , C A N A D A, Sat Mar 15 04:00:30 2003
JJ asks who would Crosbylutians spill soup on a placemat with over dinner on a cold Winter's? Personally after dinner I'd like a bit of sorcery,( we Potters usually do), a brandy and a good yarn. So send invitations to Blundellsands' own granddaddy of wicca witchcraft, Gerald Brosseau Gardner, and to Crosby's novelist and scriptwriter Lynda La Plante.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Sat Mar 15 00:39:28 2003
Hey, Salty, being as how I live in the Red Light District of Amsterdam I feel I can safely say that I am one of the few TCC-ers who lives somewhere where beating the b.eaver won't get you into trouble with the vice squad....
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Mar 14 22:42:48 2003
Babs & Bill,

Humble, Bumble or Bavarian having lived in the land of ice & snow for far too long I might add that B.eaver also takes some beating.sks
Old Salt <>
Due South of TTO, , B.eaver Land, Fri Mar 14 21:03:04 2003


Frank, you're giving me flashbacks. I vaguely remember a strange looking one-armed man who looked like something off a Players Navy Cut fag packet, landing on the hallowed shores of Burbo Bank. I also used to see him in St Joseph's Church where I doubled as an altar boy. I believe his nickname was "Kipper".
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Back at sea level thank God, Burbo-on-Sea, , Fri Mar 14 20:57:15 2003
Dear Heraldo, There is no effort entailed in 'joining the élite ranks...', because there are no such ranks on TCC and so 'trying' is out of the question.

Mis-spelling and disregard for rules of grammar are a commonplace sine qua yer wha' on TCC but your maiden speech effort was so developed them as to give the, perhaps truly meant and certainly bolstered by the Crosby Herald attatchment claimed, impression that you had not purposefullly disregarded the rules - a practice utterly in place and ok - so much as left them at the house of friend who had subsequently emigrated taking your copy with him for old times' sake.

You are of course welcome and all look forward to more of that imagery - who else would have come up with the baying pack of hyenas/wounded gazelle example? - not to be taken too far to be sure but hardly run of the millinery is it now?

Now, that 'forthwith-ery' meaning 'right away-ness' as opposed to 'from now on-ship', to regularize spelling and so forth isn't the thing either there being longstanding vacancies in the veiled references and unwhimsy departments along with a few more in special projects.

I can suggest a new department too: who(m) would Crosbylutians invite to dinner on a cold Winter's? I personally myself would be willing to spill soup on a placemat with Dag Hammarskjold; the SS-Sturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny(for his glider rescue prowess), The early 20thC Russo-British spy, Reilly; St. Theresa of Avila; Bill Shankly; Fletcher Christian and the list unrolls. Since Geneviéve Bujold is une dame fixe, I leave her out of the onetime guys, over there with other fixées, such as Kristin Scott Thomas and, but, enough of me, ....

Lookin' forward to yer stuff, then Herr Aldo, hopefully to-Moro....

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Fri Mar 14 20:51:56 2003


P.S. It's "grammar", as in "school"... ;)
Bill <>
, , , Fri Mar 14 18:16:24 2003
Humbles were always, in my not so opinion, vastly overrated. Holland's Brand Cake and Sidney pies are much tastier. Available at a chippy near you (but not, alas, near me). Welcome Heraldo, and don't take us too seriously. We won't.
Bill <>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Mar 14 18:15:02 2003
Bavarian slices are much nicer than humble pie ~ unless you prefer music of course.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Fri Mar 14 16:53:30 2003
PS. Is being able to eat humble pie a 'prerequisite' on this site???
as below <>
, , , Fri Mar 14 16:42:35 2003
Well well. I try to join the elite ranks of 'webchatsville' by my misspelling and completely disregarding the rules of grammer, and what happens? I get jumped like a baying pack of hyenas on a limping gazelle. Have no fear, I shall forthwith promise to keep all my spelling and grammar dead proper.
Heraldo <>
Crosby, , , Fri Mar 14 16:40:30 2003
Elaine, For someone with a fine tuned ear, the border between Crosby and Waterloo could probably be detected in both the "accent" and the grammar. ie, going from "POSHSPEAK" to the more "common" gutter-al LIVERPEWL method of speech delivery. ie "See you this arfter nune" to "see yer der savvo la, (or gerl)'. " Howh harr yoo" is poshspeak might not be understood beyond the borders so you would have to say something like " Howduhf***arr yer la" (or gerl). I'm sorry for the profanity on this channel but that one word alone makes up about 50% of the Liverpool dictionary. Now, going in the other direction towards Southport.............
ffrank in Toronto <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, , CANADA, Fri Mar 14 14:23:31 2003
Bill, I think the border between Waterloo and Crosby is...Kingsway, College Rd. & Brook Rd.
Elaine <LFC1@webtv.net>
Watseka, IL, USA, Fri Mar 14 03:05:43 2003
Which brings us to the inevitable next thread: Who remembers going to the Winter Gardens? Sometime in the early sixties, I remember seeing Steve Reeves in "Hercules Unchained" Now that was art!
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Mar 14 01:07:32 2003
A sausage factory in Crosby? (or, strictly speaking, Waterloo...where is the border? Great George's Road?)

I find it hard to imagine. I'm also surprised that the netnanny that cannot handle d.i.c.k. or b.e.a.v.e.r. CAN handle "sausage", a word fraught with s.e.x.u.a.l. innuendo.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Mar 14 01:03:30 2003


Bill, re the "BUG HOUSE". My friend Eric Billington worked at this establishment as a projectionist. I seem to remember there being a sausage factory in the same area by the name of Malin's. Their product was really good but I soon got sick and tired of sausage altogther. My aunt worked at the Richmond sausage factory in Litherland and kept our family well supplied. JJ, do you remember the empty jam jars that our SKIP had piled up all over the place in the old scout hall? I could never figure that one out.
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, , T O R O N T O, Fri Mar 14 00:35:22 2003
jj, would that be b.eaver patrol? sks
Salty <>
Due south of TTO, , , Fri Mar 14 00:17:11 2003
Dear Bill, FFrank's and mine was the 33rd Crosby, a Sea Scout troop holed up in Holden Road, a BLS address - had we but known - and run by a one-armed fellow called 'Skip'. I could tie a running bowline and a sheepshank and reef knots plus reef sails and gibe - Gibe---O!- the vessel with the bungee aflail and was in the b****r patrol and had a thingy on my shoulder that meant, "This is a b****r patrol guy." I would'd've imagined that's no longer on the list of patrol monicker options these days. We did build the Tyrer though, a pull-up keel job, as observed by better sailors than I, ideal for the occasionally very choppy Alt Estuary. Better said, it was built at our HQ which is nearly the same.

Now, if you still want to plead guilty, then I would say, go for it anyway! I find it gets the whole business over so much sooner. Were your guys SeaChapped or LandGuyled?

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Thu Mar 13 23:58:13 2003


Frank and J.J., are we talking 2nd Crosby, based in my day in Olive Hall, just next to the Winter Gardens, a.k.a. the Bug House. If so, I too have to plead guilty...
Bill <>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Mar 13 22:43:42 2003
Salty, I had assumed that you might have known the Tyrer family. Anyway, next time you go over to Liverpool would you mind taking along with you the (much - discussed) flag of Canada. I would like you to claim the BURBO BANK for Canada by planting the flag into the sandbank for all to see. This way, should the proposed WINDMILL project go ahead as planned, all royalties will have to be paid in Dollars rather than Euros. I'll have an amended copy of the deeds sent to the Mayor without delay. And yes, about the weather over here in Ontario, they forecast a balmy 8c on the weekend. That'll melt some of the snow and ice.
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
Toronto, , , Thu Mar 13 16:10:26 2003
ffrank, your claim to the offshore Islands to the south of Crosby might be legally challenged - depending upon the exact date of trespass. 16' no less, most of our lot could not afford to go much more than 10' - Percy Blandford being at that time one of our most revered gurus. (see memories of the 19th)

Looks like we can actually expact a warming trend over the next week Eh?

sks
Salty K. Sam <>
ex-Brighton-le-Sands, , , Thu Mar 13 15:48:17 2003


JJ, As you know, both you and I have something in common. We are both former Sea Sprouts who attended the Scout Hall on Holden Road. Our leader was Mr. Simpson. We also have the initials S.M.O.B tattooed on our DNA and on our backsides as well. The sailboat to which you refer was called the "TYRER ONE" design. Each one was lovingly hand crafted by Mr. Tyrer who lived on Endsleigh Road close to Holden and close enough to the River Mersey that the Yachts could be wheeled across the sand for a launch. Paul Tyrer, one of three sons, was a close friend as I lived close by at the other end of the street. Paul now lives in GLAS YNYS North Wales. On April 18 of this year, according to my calculations, he will achieve the ripe old age of 65. As for the Tyrer boats, they were of such a design that they could easily and safely navigate through choppy waters on a windy day, which made them unique. On the odd occasion, Paul and myself would challenge mother nature but always arrived home safely albeit soaked and proud of our bravery. I was the owner of a 16ft Kayak type canoe. This craft enabled me to set foot on the BURBO BANK and lay claim to this remote piece of real estate. I have deeded my claim in trust to our worshipful Mayor, Andy Melia.
ffrank in Toronto <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
Toronto, , , Thu Mar 13 15:27:56 2003
bill, bill, you are 2 kind. he just had a bad her day. his computer won't let him dam it. how cudd a man give a quote of himself? after looking to see what his full name 'was'? wot with the influx of crosby ... on the worldwideweb? and venezuala? a long way away to be keeping in tuch? duzz heraldo throw dots and commas and big lettterz up in the sky and see how they come down to enshure no favoritisms? he cudd walk into bristol. the artikle shudd be gudd wen it comes owt. heraldo:: if yo'u''re into reporting you will have to tighten up heer and ther or get more pages for leters to the editor. but keepem comin. dont go way. tcc is al about lite releef
ripvan <dozy@noon.>
crosby, .., bls, Thu Mar 13 15:12:41 2003
Oops (sheepish grin)... "prerequisite"
Bill <>
, , , Thu Mar 13 11:53:29 2003
Dear Heraldo,

"You're full name"? I gather that GCSE English is no longer a prerequesite for membership of the Fourth Estate.

Why doesn't this surprise me?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Mar 13 11:35:42 2003


As little JJ opened his eyes for the first time in Crosby that very cold January of 1947, the village was still Tory and the coal industry was being nationalized by that other lot. In Melbourne, Cyril Washbrook was warming the cockles of Lancastrian hearts, over the early morning radiowaves, with a first innings 62 and a second innings 112 in the 3rd Test Match down under. "Bags being Washbrook" was heard all over the village that year when taking guard to defend stumps chalked on dustbins against the 'Lindwalls and Millers' from other streets. In 1947 Liverpool F.C. won the league and they did it without speaking a word of French. "Bags being Sidlow in goal". To top it all Crosby had a carnival and Buckingham Palace used up the nation's clothing allowance on a royal wedding. 1947 was a good year and reception from Sutton Coldfield, or was it Alexandra Palace, was never normal and hardly ever resumed.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Wed Mar 12 22:47:35 2003
Dear Albion, Thanks for the Bramble Seedless! AAHHH! Honey for tea's norra patch onnit!

Dear Heraldo, I am an even tempered, rather distinguished and prominent member of "none of the above" in any listing you care to name. From your admirable straighforwardness, I gather, and use your thrust entirely, that you seek my assistance in avoiding being rumbled as a two-bit hack, not much different from my own field of hackery though I hesitate to put a price on mine. You'll also notice that, were you to have put some addie or other, I coulda e-mailed you. Kinda thing. Whatever. I am John Kelly, erswhilely incumbed at Brownmoor Lane Mansions, a freshfaced and aspiring development of post-war dimension, low-keyed into the upper section of what used to be a shorter lane. In them days, like.

I went to St. Mary's, thereby achieving SMOB status before it was fashionable. I left in 1959 and tootled off to Liverpool, whence to Georgetown U. in D.C., all labeled 'chemistry'. I was there in DC when JFK got the chop. All memorable stuff. That means anything after 1963 is 'new' to me so, for instance, the 'New baths' never got past that and are now, I gather, the 'About to be razed' baths. I got to Venezuela finally in 1968 with Shell Chemical and married a local lass, Mercedes Magalí Luciani Massiani, herely born but ultimately of Corsican extraction, five months later. Our eldest is coming up 34 and our youngest is 30; we're gearing up for 35 of them come July.

That said, I would outpoint that TCC ain't per se'd exclusively at keeping up with the news of the day but also constitutes a link between folk who have a single common trait, namely, that of being Crosbegians; TCC is more of a Crosbylogical Diaspora Chronicle and Odds and Sods Purveyor of no fixed adobe, a term I adopt in acknowledgement to tropical input from Cantabfellow and Albion [who(m) yer reelie oughta talk to] located next to Venezuela, in quiet and peaceful Colombia. Notwithstanding its diasporic overtones, the Channel is based in, or in today's garbage, "out of", Crosby itveryself and does, of course, delight in posts from Crosby, Formby, Altcar, Lunt, Weld Blundell, Seaforth, Waterloo, Seafield and points beyond. And now, even Crosby, North Dakota.

Why do I like TCC? Rather for the reasons above. You have to bear in mind that, wherever and whenever, you never cease to constitute what you are and some acknowledgement of that is an inbuilt requirement, more for some, less for others. Any effort to be other than or failure to nod to what you are ends in falsehood, however sincerely undertaken. I was born in Wavertree but, having arrived at age 5 on a cold day in January, 1947, I am "from Crosby" so a part of my exercising being true to whatever it is that I constitute entails acknowledging that. So, being farflung as I (am), I find that TCC offers that option á la internet and nicely with it. I take them up on it.

You are free to cite and quote as you will, provided you attribute nothing of this lot to Beatrice Fiona Farquarson Rimmer Gilbertson Schmidt-Falke with whom I have no connexion whatsoever.

& ....God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Mar 12 19:15:30 2003


Heraldo,

Two bit hack? By jove you should have signed on with the bluddy Echo, old chap, then again the spellings a bit precise for THAT!

c b-s
Cecil Bonkington-Smythe <>
Blundellsahhnds, , , Wed Mar 12 19:12:23 2003


hola JJ, i work with the crosby herald, and was hoping you could give me a couple of quotes. the article i'm writing is about the influx of Crosby and Crosbyites on the world wide web, as I'm sure you'll be aware there are quite a few more. you may be wondering why I pick you out...well, venezuala is a long way away to be keeping in touch and be aware of what's happening in Moor Lane and Crosby village. I thought I could make a few quotes up but then realised that people would read it, inform you and I would then be rumbled as a two-bit hack. i was wondering what you're full name was and whereabouts in crosby you lived, also why you like the CCC and how great it is to keep in touch with the news of the day. oh and when you left Crosby. any comment/info would be most appreciated. i would have emailed but my computer won't let me damn it. anyway, cheers for reading and I hope to hear from you soon. ps great site.
Heraldo <>
Crosby, , , Wed Mar 12 17:01:17 2003
JJ: Expat. memories are made of such things as that. Here's another from the oddly named site of 'dunekacke' http://dunekacke.de/konfitnelsen.html There you'll find a photo of your favourite jar of Bramble Seedless and other sweet delights from Nelson of Aintree.
A.F. <cantabfellow@therange.com>
, , , Wed Mar 12 15:23:35 2003
Dear Salty, I took the mention from Albion's post of Wednesday, this week and Googled up the "Photo 1947 Crosby Carnival Camerons Garage".

..& God bless
jj <jj>
jj, .., Vendles, Wed Mar 12 15:06:10 2003


jj. sorry "Tyrer" not Tyler

sks
Salty K. Sam <>
Due South of TTO, , , Wed Mar 12 14:52:21 2003


JJ. the dinghy you refer was in fact designed as day sailor for the Blundellsands yach club (Boathoused in Hightown) by a gentleman, strangley enough with the name of Tyler. He lived just down the road from that infamous headquarters of the 33rd, Sea Sprouts (aka Simpsons one armed lot) I too sailed in one of that class, with the well respected and sober 19th, group, but my recollections the craft being overloaded and sinking, when the pristine waters of the Crosby section of the River Mersey shot over the top of the centre board casing. I think they were about 11' long, round bottomed and sported a transom bow - similar, but well ahead of that popular "Mirror Dinghy". May I ask how you got onto the web sight mentioned? sks.
Salty K. Sam <>
, Due south of TTO, , Wed Mar 12 14:50:10 2003
Dear Albion, I was reallly interested to see the snapshot of the 1947 carnival, as I am sure, was Uncle Frank. The odd thing there is that the boat design illustrated is the one I sailed on the River Alt, along with Peter Callaghan, later a well-known teacher whose memory lives on, I gather, in an annual footrace up Moor Lane. The design, a Tyrer, was not widely built but the 33rd scout troop made one in the Holden Road HQ. I remember bufffing, or polishing, it over my time there and later, sailing it both on the Alt and Derwentwater where, though not the originals, I did see at least first cousins of the poemetically dancing daffodils that had priorly become worth a word from a famous chappie. By jingo, though! I had entirely forgotten the boatbuilding phase, wherefore, thanks an' all! As for the photo itself, I was there but not exactly. As I recollect, we were about the Odeon picture house, toward the bottom of South road.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, .., Vendles, Wed Mar 12 14:00:09 2003


Dear Babs, Likewise!

Dear Donna, It is nice to see you back there! but I would take issue with your "one quickly gets more input on TCC than a simple prairie mind like mine.." the very embodiment of coy, demure and things! What simple mind? And why should a prairie mind be any simpler than a crisis fatigued mind in Crosby or Venezuela (Ay-Ay-Ay!)or the Cauca Valley. And that challengingly smiling comment, all innocence, "a big ship 'buff'.." tangentially commenting on the 'polished' style of our Wace Poetic Albion whose impeccable research - I did look at the Wace Poem and its Jersey French, all good stuff! - bedazzles with ease. You're a one, Donna, a Crosby Channel natural, seemingly. Maybe that mystical Burbo link bruited about by some charlie a while ago is already in place and you guys up there are oozing millennial wisdom effortlessy and "nice try-ing" us poor mortals from our Cornflakery in the old world?

But I enjoyed the Titanic thing too and having walked and run and chatted up talent, atremble at the knee, in those same roads, doubly so.

How far are you from Canada and do all those people speak like Frances McDormand fargo, fargo, fargone, fargamos, fargamos, fancy (irreg)

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Wed Mar 12 03:22:06 2003


JJ You have written in the past about Crosby's Carnival. Google up "Photo 1947 Crosby Carnival Camerons Garage". Garston trout anglers might be interested in the site also.
A.F. <cantabfellow@therange.com>
, , , Wed Mar 12 02:36:48 2003
Dear RASPUTIN, You must be just like Wiarton Willie. You stick your nose in once a year and if nowt interests you, you crawl back into your hole. And I beg to differ with you old chap; it's not the same old s**t. We have just made an amazing discovery,- that not only are there Crosbyites all over the world, there are CROSBY'S all over the world. Not only that, our Mayor is in Yorkshire freezing his butt off and the Garston trout are swimming upstream. Babs has ( er, perhaps still is ) just celebrated her 50th. JJ has survived the turmoil in Venezuela (Thank Heaven), and we have a new contributor to the site all the way from the U.S of A. So read the postings by DONNA and then go write a hundred lines or something for saying that nothing is new. on here. As for your suggestion about stepping outside to get a life. Well, please excuse me on that old bean. Where I live, it's too d**n cold to do that at the moment. I'd much rather play on my computer while dreaming about sunning myself on the golden sands of Burbo Bank with a big boxful of Bavarian slices for lunch.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , C A N A D A, Wed Mar 12 02:29:08 2003
Same list of posters. Same old s**t. Same old tired attempts at humour. Hello - the world is passing you by, step outside now and again and get a life. Just making my once a year visit to check up on lifes losers
Rasputin <Stpetes@madmonk>
iron curtain, , , Wed Mar 12 01:49:01 2003
Listen ~ no READ ~ Chad my sweetie ~ we have to stop meeting on message boards like this or folk will start to talk......I agree with you tho~ some of the posts on here ARE exceptionally dazzling!
Babs <>
Southport, , , Tue Mar 11 23:09:58 2003
Sorry, Barbara, darling, I would need more time and sunglasses to read the posts on here (it's so briiiiighttt!!!!)- so the geezer's not 'ere then?
chad <patat@ukonline.co.uk>
, , , Tue Mar 11 21:57:30 2003
Behave ? While the Mayor's away the Burbo-ites will........he he he... It was lovely to talk to you the other nite jj. I'ts not often I get phone calls from Caracas!!Any more Crosby's found?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Tue Mar 11 18:11:31 2003
The Mayor is shivering in `yorkshire. So behave yourselves.
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, Burbo-with-Bradford, , Tue Mar 11 17:51:29 2003
so how many crosby's are there around the world????
wee willy winky <>
, , , Tue Mar 11 17:23:57 2003
ffrank,

and I thought you meant the tickling the dogs behind.

S B-S
Sammy Basil-Smythe <>
, Brighton-le-Sahhnds, , Tue Mar 11 15:05:10 2003


Thanks Donna, We are more than a CROSBY site, we're International. We even allow animals to use the site - (referring to Bonnie).
ffrank in Toronto <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , C A N A D A, Tue Mar 11 14:25:57 2003
Well, I see that one quickly gets more input on TCC than a simple prairie mind like mine can process. The task is made even more difficult by the fact that I don't understand half of what is said on TCC. I knew about the existence of Crosby in Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota and Mississippi but not about the ones in Ontario and Washington. I believe I read somewhere that my Crosby is named after a pioneer gentleman who had no claim to fame except that he and two buddies decided to name a spot on the prairie after him, not realizing it would become a town. The term "pioneer", defined as an "early settler", refers to a different era here than in Europe or even the Eastern US. A pioneer on the plains of western North Dakota showed up in the early 1900's, which is a blink in time compared to the history of most places. And of course it ignores the prior settlement of the area by the Native Americans. I imagine our Australian friends can relate to my comments on "pioneers" except ours weren't jailbirds, that I know of. I discovered the ties between Crosby and the "Titanic" which is exciting for me as I'm a big ship buff. I loved looking at the photos of Crosby and Titanic characters homes. I also found Bonnie the Dog (why does the site width exceed my screen width?). She looks like a Shih Tzu. My mom had one. Won't comment on that right now. I don't know what part of England my ancestors are from because I haven't delved into geneaology and did not, unfortunately, ask my parents and grandparents these questions while they were alive. I know my Grandma sailed to England many times on ships like the "Queen Elizabeth" and "Queen Mary" to visit ancestral sites and relatives. My Crosby has a website: www.crosbynd.com, but I guarantee it's NOTHING like TCC. There is a guestbook, which appears to be down at the moment, but the postings are pretty mundane compared to yours. I won't speculate on the reasons for the differences just yet. Finally, Deirdre in South Carolina please don't torture me with your temps in the 70's!!! It's still well below zero here and has been for weeks. No sign of spring.
prairiefemme (aka Donna) <adnelson@nccray.com>
, Crosby, North Dakota, USA, Tue Mar 11 10:28:25 2003
You mean the Brown Trout, SSalty?
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, On the North Side of Lake Ontario, , Tue Mar 11 00:49:41 2003
One of my brothers had a scrap business which he ran from Garston beach.His firm floated the pier head pontoons down the river to the beach where they were duly dismantled.
Babs <>
Southport, , , Mon Mar 10 22:51:42 2003
Good site FFrank, it took me back to my childhood, on the beach right next to our own pier, dodging the ever present Garston Trout! sks
Salty <>
, Brighton-le-sands, , Mon Mar 10 22:10:33 2003
returned to Lpool in '86 bought a house in Lancaster Ave off College rd. My hubby Tony used to go to the pub on College rd "The Edinburgh"also known as the "Bug House" stayed for 2 years then came back to OZ. Friends still live in Halltine close, Blundell Sands
ann <carroll>
, adelaide, australia, Mon Mar 10 12:42:05 2003
returned to Lpool in '86 bought a house in Lancaster Ave off College rd. My hubby Tony used to go to the pub on College rd "The Edinburgh"also known as the "Bug House" stayed for 2 years then came back to OZ. Friends still live in Halltine close, Blundell Sands
ann <carroll>
, adelaide, australia, Mon Mar 10 12:41:51 2003
Now if anyone does their research on CROSBY, Ontario Canada then they will have no trouble disputing what was said in my last posting. Keep in mind that when newspapers get it wrong, like putting the wrong names to photographs, for example, and get caught out for their carelessness, then all they so is print a miniscule "we regret the error" in some obscure corner of their publication and thereby assume that their sins are forgiven. In my case, I will smack myself with a wet Liverpool Echo instead of reciting the customary Our Father's and Hail Mary's etc. Please therefore, look up www.brownsmarina.com for evidence that the Vikings COULD have navigated the fresh waters of Ontario and ended up, lost, in what is now named CROSBY, Ontario.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , ONTARIO, Mon Mar 10 01:45:41 2003
I'm not boasting, BUT, we have a CROSBY here in ONTARIO. It's quite a hike from Toronto but I did drive there out of curiosity. Not much to see I'm afraid but they're a proud lot who live there. In the general store you can buy a cap that says "I visited CROSBY" on the front. When I manage to find out when and by whom this dot on the map was founded, I'll post the information on TCC. Couldn't have been the Vikings as the rivers don't go this far. Nor could the ROMANS lay claim to the founding. After all, Roman soldiers on horseback with big heavy swords would have been no match for our guys with their bows and arrows. Couldn't have been a Scouser neither as there's no pub here. So that's why there aint any facts contained in this posting. - There's no pub in Crosby Ontario where one can do their research..........
ffrank in Toronto <cfjm3@hotmail>
, Used to be called YORK but now called Toronto, , Mon Mar 10 01:01:29 2003
Diligent research into historical records (Domesday Book, the Ragman Rolls, The Wace Poem, the Honour Roll of the Battle (of Hastings) Abbey, The Curia Regis, Pipe Rolls, the Falaise Roll and various baptismal, parish records etc) shows that the name Crosby is a surname of Norman origin. The name Crosby has also been interpreted as meaning "The village at the Cross Roads" and also "The village near a cross". This noticeboard has given this story before. Unfortunately as a result of periodic SMOB interruptions the contributions have been just as periodically struck from the record. The man who gave his name to Crosby was John de Crosbei, a man of Norse origin, whose ancestors had settled in Normandy with Rollo, at a place named Corbie in Picardy. Incidentally there is a statue to this Viking Rollo in Fargo, North Dakota. The family name in Rollo's time, the 900's or so, was spelled Crosj later to become, with French influence, Crosbei. Coming to England with William the Conqueror,(1066 and all that), John was granted lands off the River Mersey, on the same sand dunes where some of his ancestors, driven from Ireland in the 9th century, are thought to have landed, settled and played golf with their leader Osbertus of Einuluesdel(Ainsdale). John called the lands granted Crosbei after himself. John had four sons: Simon from which the Lancashire Crosbys are descended; Robert, founder of the Cumbrian branch(High and Low Crosby); Adam and Thomas, founder of the Berwickshire branch and a link to Robert the Bruce. Places given the name Crosby are usually named after individuals not wayside crosses. Goes for Crosby, Minnesota ( still a stately home to Vikings); to the mining ghost town of Crosby, Washington; to Crosby County,Texas and to Crosby, Mississippi. Is this true of Crosby, North Dakota also ?
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Mon Mar 10 00:42:53 2003
Ahhhhhhh jj you know me too well.... and my veiled comments are much preferable to the mayors are they not? I mean... I offer alliance and he has WIND... Talking of dalliance someone seems to be seeking one with danger...... can you SEE that guy here my dear Chadrick?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sun Mar 9 22:04:37 2003
In a looking mode, I relooked at Donna's post there about Crosby details, being "population, main sources of income, community activities, weather, history" and realised that there wasn't much of that stuff and, with my time in Venezuela intruding, I see that I too would like to know a bit of that stuff. What is our population? do we have any asylum seekers? Or a substantial Muslim community? Or a prominent anything? Is anyone willing to admit to having an income with a source? Community stuff is generally covered on a case to case basis but I mean, can I expect to be easily enroll my next granchild in a children's theatre programme. For instance? Weather of course we do have with seasons almost every year and lows every day so I guess that's covered with 'aspiring to nondescript' or 'unremarkable or something'. As for history, well, apart from the Vikings founding and the history of the Blundell family, there must be some other historically citables?

Still looking, though now in 'veiled reference' mode, I ran into an unexpected harvest. There's spotter's 'Crosbeians' veiledly voting on the name options for the population. There's cantabfellow's irreverence with the 'wee' walk inasmuch as, in my experience with dog owners, all walks are 'wee' ones. When it comes to veiled references though, teacher Babs is in a class of her own, so easily taking the crumpet that she reminds one of that commentator's famous wind-up of a Derby decades ago, "Eclipse first and the rest, nowhere." In just two postings, we have 'dalliance' disguised as alliance but, preceded by "It is therefore ideally situated for the formation of an alliance ...", who could miss the implications? We have a lady at the pinnacle of her youth, whose name she wisely reserves, but also mentions how a certain all should stand up. Ar Babs, you are a one! Doling out those jealousy triggers with enviable ease and nonchalance! Enough said.

In deference to the newity of Donna's advent, I would also say that that signoff monicker, "prairiefemme" is mischievously piquant too, what with an "Oklahoma" nostaglgia inbuilt, and a chirrupping gold enaze on the meadow called up from one's times. Yes. times. And the 'femme' part is straighforward enough until mated with the front end, conjouring up the frontier lady, ravishingly independant and descended, at least in spirit, from adventurous and devil-may-care Canadien voyageurs of yesteryear who definitely frequented North Dakota in the late 18th and early 19th and whose evocative travelling songs still resound down memory's halls. (See Parkman's "Oregon Trail", which I am still plugging)

Effortleesly and without exertion then, TCC seems to have registered a very sui generis brand of barely respectable virtual licentiousness-in-waiting, globally threaded. Which bothers me not a bit. Congratulations, you rascals all!

And Donna, what's with your Crosby, Lass? Our Rive Gauche guys are waiting with baited breath for North Dakotan inputtables. And, being English among the Norge chaps, what bit of it are you from? And does Beowulf live up there in Elvis's house when he's away? And so on?

...& God Bless
jj <jakelly@telcel.net.ve>
Caracas, .., Vendles, Sun Mar 9 19:58:00 2003


S.M.O.B's used to leg-it down the Avenues of Crosby,when the chessy boys where near,we would chase them into corners and debate Greek classic books,or who should be the next Arch-bishop of Canterbury,but they would just want to fight and cause trouble,after a damn good debating they would run off to see the Priest,for closet compforts or another hiding which ever.fearless
fearless6.05 <>
Crosby, Liverpool, England, Sun Mar 9 18:58:29 2003
S.M.O.B's used to leg-it down the Avenues of Crosby,when the chessy boys where near,we would chase them into corners and debate Greek classic books,or who should be the next Arch-bishop of Canterbury,but they would just want to fight and cause trouble,after a damn good debating they would run off to see the Priest,for closet compforts or another hiding which ever.fearless
fearless6.05 <>
Crosby, Liverpool, England, Sun Mar 9 18:57:53 2003
Bonnie the dog: Our Venezuelan correspondent JJ, Frank, Spotter, Babs and even your master's voice all forgot to mention the importance of WIND in the Crosby channel. So Bonnie, my good girl, when you next take the Mayor for a wee walk, let him know they are already harvesting the stuff at North Dakota windfarms. His Great Burbobank Seascape Energy contacts should visit WIND (Wind Interests of North Dakota) at: http://www.windnd.com/-1.html to share experiences in developing sound principles and concepts for successful windfarm planning, implementation and management.
A.F. <cantabfellow@therange.com>
, , , Sun Mar 9 17:34:29 2003
By the way, has Pete Lund been posting on here?
chad <patat@ukonline.co.uk>
Brum, , , Sun Mar 9 17:30:43 2003
Stark raving it would seem! Welcome to the madhouse Donna! Do you know wot folks? I just realised that I just sort of snuck in here and made myself at home ~ and very comfy it is thank you very much... I am now wondering whether I defied Burbo etiquette by not introducing myself officially and allowing residents to welcome me formally. In an effort to put matters right ~ I am Babs otherwise known as Barbara/Barb and have been known by the surnames Carlyon and Waring. I have just reahced the pinnacle of my youth and have never felt so good during the last 50 years.... I went to St Lukes halsall and Manor Road Schools and susequently went back to teach there after a brief interlude working for the Telephone Mananger alongside the Mayor. Anyone who knows me please stand up and be counted those who don't ~ hello! Everyone feel free to welcome me belatedly!
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sat Mar 8 21:41:12 2003
So, Donna. As you can see, we're all delightfully mad!
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, Burbo Bank, , Sat Mar 8 20:55:38 2003
Dear Donna, Welcome to the CROSBY site. Occupied by Ranters and Ravers, intellectuals, ex-pats, SMOB'S, correspondents from all over the world. They used to say that for news to travel fast - Telephone, Telegraph, Tel-a-woman. The old time TTT as been replaced by the CCC. You have now joined with the elite. We are a well balanced lot because some of us are LIVERPOOL (The Reds) supporters while others are EVERTON (The Blues) supporters. There of those of us who went to St. Mary's College in Crosby and there are those amongst us who wished they had. As of recently, there are quite a few who are glad that they hadn't. Being on your side of the Atlantic Donna, I am bi-lingual in that I speak both SCOUSE and Canadian although I am losing some of my treasured SCOUSE accent and am overdue for a visit to MERSEYSIDE for a refresher course. Nevertheless, I am happy to be your official translator should you ever by stymied as to what on Earth certain expressions as expressed expressly on this site mean. If you do not comprehend something then all you need to do is to interrupt with the question YER-WAA LA? or YER-YA GERL? From time to time this site comes under attack by persons unknown. When this happens, usually all h*** (H E L L) breaks loose. ( No swearing allowed) Asterisks are a replacement for profanity should the need to cuss be difficult to control. But hey Donna, now that you are here, why not tell us all about CROSBY U.S. of A.?
Frank in Toronto <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , Canada, Sat Mar 8 20:17:45 2003
Dear Donna, First and foremost, Welcome to the quirkiest bunch of surrealists you'll meet in a month of IHOP sundaes. I have to thank you for your bringing to my notice the sheer oodle of stuff there is to be known about The Crosby Channel, herinafter, "TCC", and its denizens, hereinafter. Who would have thought it? Howeverlie and before I am out of ideas, let me mention in passing that the channel's monicker is a reference to a route up the Mersey out of our local port, Liverpool, actually named in the Doomsday Book as "a fishing village, near Crosby". The Old Norslies connexion is reel as our fishing department will confirm.

There are several points that you oughta get up to speed on though and one is the CNN, being Crosny Non-diet Normality or proper eating code which turns about the pivotal protein-free Bavarian Slice, a succulence from a local tuck shop called Satterthwaites, run, in the event by a very amiable gentleman who is a professional oceanographer. That should put you in the picture after a ricochet fashion, being a way of intimating, despite hard evidence to the contrary, that Crosby is the Eurocapital of Non Sequiturs writ biggish and degrees are awarded sporadically, summa c*m loud and magna c*m louder, from a University disguised as a pub on Brooke Road and creatively named, "The Brooke".

On TCC, we are also big on veiled references, despite hard evidence to the contrary and the language mostly used is akin to English on most days and your command of it, being merely a first step, is taken as read, or an assumption, in turn being a garment worn by Arle Ady for her famous exit and celebrated at Crosby's French outpost, Paris, under the guise of the famously Kanz Ooh about mid August or therabouts, give or take a day or sew.

Another, at least potentially, steaming issue here referred to veiledly by spotter is the word for inhabitants of Crosby, any Crosby. I am drumming up support for "Crosbegians" for midweek and "Crosbones" for weekends and feast days. To date, there has been no concensus and input from the great plains would be a breath of the freshly.

The mayor's little huddle of scientificklies under their Pinnacles have, with some hard evidence creatively gathered worldwide from libraries and history and stuff, been able to establish that Crosby, that is our version, which in honour of factual rigour, we egotistically tout as the Kellogs Cornflakes of Crosby's "The Original and The Best", has been the cradle of much if not all cultural breakables, having been Ramses II's first school and the inspiration of the Incas and their affable "Glad to Meetchu" approach to life, to name but a Phew!

In this verily vein, I think there should immediately be set in motion a move to twin our Crosby and yours thus to acknowledge the mystical axis running underly from the one to the other and let you partake of the global inspiration stuff that oozes sporadically from our offshore headquarters located secretly on Burbo Bank and which is rainswept when wet. In a word, put the "Great" back into Great Plains and I am sure that Andy Melia of worshipfullity will be happy to inaugurate y'all with his special inauguratably, in spite of the moral and realpolitikal overtones, pragmaticals and othersuch now wrenching the guts out of your two lands.

I say 'your' because I am located here in Caracas, Venezuela, very taken up just now with Human Rites, being mostly funeral ones with social turmoil and regional repercussions that no charlie in most of the rest of the world cares for much.

Now, your query on SMOB. The borough has a slew of schools, the oldest by far being one whose name escapes me but the next one down the line is Saint Mary's College, a high school with Stella Maris nautical connexions to St. Catherine of Siena and Tom the Aquine. I, for instance am rumoured to have gone to school at St Mary's and, for my sins, am a fare example, having often taken the bus, of the finely hewn and untinged straightforwardship tort there. And there are others. But I dye cress. The SMOB denotes both "Saint Mary's Old Boy" and, all confusingly, "Saint Mary's Old Boys", being an association doused in scandal in recent years and admitted to the bar, as a matter of coarse, if you get my drift. So there you have it, Donna, lass. A regular ordinary Crosby clarified in a few barely chosen words. We look forward to more of yours from your land. If you'd really like a bit of currant affairs stuff, I am sure we can give the BavSlice a miss for one weak moment.

And A Happy New Year to you too!

... & God Bless
jj <jakelly@telcel.net.ve>
Caracas, DF, Vendles, Sat Mar 8 19:46:52 2003


Hello and Welcome Donna: I hail from part of the Borough of Crosby, frequently ignored by the Crosby Channel, called Hightown. It is admittedly, a tiny village on the River Alt, of no real importance which probably explains why I now live in SOuth Carolina.

'Scouser'is from the word 'scouse'a native dish of Liverpudlians. Scouse is to Liverpool ( near Crosby ) as Schnitzel is to Vienna. My Father used to tell me it came from Labskaus a Sailor's dish. This would make sense since Liverpool is a port city.

Sniggery Woods is in the Crosby area and I think the name has something to do with eels. Am sure some enlightened soul will post something to provide more information on this.

Cheers Deirdre P.S. Our temperature is supposed to reach mid 70-'s today. Spring is here!
Deirdre <deescouse@mindspring.com>
Chapin, South Carolina, USA, Sat Mar 8 17:34:42 2003


Thank you, esteemed Mayor of Burbo Bank, for introducing me to your neck of the woods. And thanks to Babs for the addition. "Surreal" is an excellent word to describe much of what I've read on this site. Do you folks talk like you write? :) One word I put in my last message was partially blanked out by the site filter. Is the word that starts with "fan" and ends with "nies" and which means multiple h**o sapien derrieres a dirty word in English English (as opposed to American English where it's completely innocuous)? You folks must have much better eyesight than moi, as I can't see Bonnie the Dog or Cherie Blair either in that tiny picture at the top. When you refer to "footballers", you mean soccer right? I believe this is a game wherein the main object is to see how many fans can maim and murder each other? I still don't know what "scouser" means. Or Sniggery Woods. And finally, "Texas North" is cute. Very clever indeed. Cheers.
prairiefemme <adnelson@nccray.com>
, Crosby, North Dakota, USA, Sat Mar 8 16:20:04 2003
Donna: In the UK we like to divide our Crosbys. This one, for example, has a Great and a Little Crosby. Further up north and to the east, in Cumbria, there is also a High and a Low Crosby. Visiting your Crosby community website, (couldn't access the guestbook, by the way), I see the North Dakota Crosbeians chose to divide (in name anyway) the county but not the town, where there is also a Crosby Wetlands District under management. A little to the north of this UK Crosby, a 20 minute drive from Babs' Southport, there is also a Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust, which is a major wintering ground for visitors on the wing from Iceland and Siberia. Mr. Mayor : why did you duck the issue and avoid answering Donna's query about SMOB ?
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Sat Mar 8 16:09:48 2003
As a not so far flung diplomatic presence I'm afraid that I now feel duty bound to risk immense Mayoral displeasure by pointing out an omittence in his most gracious introductory speech. His worshipfulness should have given at least a tiny reference to Burbo's allegiance with nearby Birkdale. Penance will be expected at the next contingency planning meeting! Birkdale is a suburb of nearby Southport which is a seaside town famous for its lack of sea. It does however have an abundance of sand and of course many sandbanks. It is therefore ideally situated for the formation of an alliance with the inhabitants of Burboland.
Babs <>
Sandport, , , Sat Mar 8 11:07:10 2003
Dear Donna, welcome to Crosby - you have just embarked on a very surreal journey.

Crosby is an Old Norse (Viking) place name, so maybe that's the tie up with the Norwegian descendents in your town.

It is a suberb of Liverpool, a large seaport in the north of England that breeds Beatles and footballers with strange haircuts.

The inhabitants of Liverpool are called Scousers. However, the people of Crosby (whether still living here or those who have emigrated) are an extremely strange lot. But they're absolutely harmless, and I'm sure you'll make many online friends.

Burbo Bank is an independent principality - a sort of loose federation of sandbanks off the coast of Crosby, of which I am honoured to be the worshipful Mayor.

Burbo Bank's esteemed mascot is Bonnie the Dog, whose photograph you can see in the top right of the screen in front of Cherie Blair( a Crosby girl), wife of Tony Blair, the Hon. Member for Texas North and also the British Prime Minister (but not for much longer).

Burbo Bank enjoys a world-wide diplomatic presence and has loyal Foreign Ministers in countries as diverse as Canada, Holland, Venezuela, Hampton Court and your very own Manhattan.

Crosby itself has a history of academic excellence, examplified by the infamous 'Crosby Research into Artistic Pinnacles' or C.R.A.P. for short.

So, "Wecome to Crosby" and have fun. (But whatever you do, stay clear of Sniggery Woods).
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, Burbo Bank, , Sat Mar 8 07:55:23 2003


My desktop PC has Windows ME and I could not post to this site. Just got a laptop with Windows 2000 Pro and voila!! I looked for this site cuz I knew there was a UK city with the same name as mine. I was expecting local happenings, news etc. like is on our website. Instead I find a lot of slang, cuss words, politics, insults and messages I can't even understand. Your cuss words aren't the same as ours, of course, so to ** out bl**dy is pretty funny to me. To get the topic du jour out of the way, I oppose attacking Iraq and so do many Americans (close to half). Can someone tell me what SMOB means? scouse? Burbo Bank? My Crosby is on the Great Plains in the very northwest corner of ND. Population 1200. Mostly Norwegian (not me - I'm English among other things). Farming - mostly wheat. I'd like to know more about Crosby, UK - population, main sources of income, community activities, weather,history. Is there anyone on this site interested in this sort of exchange? We've been freezing our f*****s lately at minus 10 to minus 35 Celsius. Lots of snow, too. Cheers from the prairie.
prairiefemme <adnelson@nccray.com>
, Crosby, USA, Sat Mar 8 04:36:01 2003
When I arrived in Toronto in 1956 racism was rampant. Most new arrivals came without the proverbial pot to p*** in. Italians were arriving by the boatload-no money, no speeka de EEnglish. They were referred to as "WOPS". Eastern Europeans also were arriving in great numbers. Polacks, Ukes, Czechs, Hungarians brought their strange customs and appetites with them. They, too, were despised by those who were here before them and who slighted them with the title of "DP" (Displaced Person). Guess what? They now all speak English and their children are far brighter than the average Canadian in the same age group. All are hard workers, own their own homes and many their own businesses and in general are contributing something to Canada. But Canadians now eat PIZZA, RYE BREAD, GARLIC, love ethnic restaurants etc. I can remember the days when even being CATHOLIC was a problem. Try to get a government or civic job in Toronto and reveal that your religion was Catholic and you might as well shoot yourself in the foot. The Orangemen ruled Toronto. Every July they would have their silly parade through the streets with some a*s dressed up as king billy, on a horse. Crowds would turn out to watch and cheer. Next, the crouds got smaller and came to jeer. Now, nobody knows who the hell king Billy is nor do they care. But people like myself are embarrassed that these Orangemen were allowed to get away with flaunting the Union Jack as a sign of prejidice towards Catholics.Now, they find themselves to be in the MINORITY. We are now on to the next wave of immigrants from other parts of the world. These are visibly very different. Different colours, different dress, different places of worship and so on. The Canadian government no longer vets who comes in to the country so we get more than our share of rif raff and criminals. The government is elected by the people so if you don't like what is happening vote them out and and vote the other lot in. Someone like Enoch Powell or Adolf Hitler.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
Toronto, , , Sat Mar 8 03:37:18 2003
Hello from a namesake: Crosby, North Dakota, USA. If this message posts successfully, I'll write more later.
Donna <adnelson@nccray.com>
, Crosby, USA, Sat Mar 8 02:47:17 2003
Burbo Bank welcomes guests al all colours, creeds, genders, bank balances and species (especially friends of Bonnie the Dog).
Mayor <>
Burbo Bank, , , Fri Mar 7 07:39:11 2003
I hope whoever puts racial slurs on TCC realises that they may well expose the channel to legal action that can only poison an already turgid social atmosphere, albeit after having done away with the channel itself. Jerks!

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Fri Mar 7 01:03:20 2003


Who Rules Britannia?

Camel Cowboys Invasion - Warning On Burbobank!
A-rabs have already invaded the UK there are over
1 million Muslims here in Nova Albion they now outnumber Scousers!

INDIAN TAKEAWAY 1 WAY!
THESE RAGHEADS REALLY DO EXIST, AND ARE LIVING IN A STREET CORNER STORE NEAR YOU :-p....

Mr. E. Powell;>


Mr. E. Powell <Who-Rules@UK.Com>
Told, You, So, Thu Mar 6 23:57:52 2003
'Tis Odd's bodikin, hotrock man: betta', dig dis: 'esploit every dude... esploit them afta' yo' own honour an' dignity, dig dis: da less dey deserve, da mo' merit be in yo' bounty.
2B <ornot2b@bard.com>
, , , Thu Mar 6 20:21:56 2003
"Oddsbodkins! I am undone!" I heard him cry.
hotrock <usual>
crosby, .., <>, Thu Mar 6 17:36:48 2003
Really jj? ?????????......
Babs <>
Southport, , , Thu Mar 6 07:57:24 2003
Ar come on ar Babs! I personally feel there's plenty of hard evidence to the contrary. About posts and stuff.

..& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Wed Mar 5 21:56:32 2003


Posts slow down after 50.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Wed Mar 5 21:50:36 2003
Nice one Cal, I'd never thought of it that way.
John Hodge <>
Brighton- le-Sands (also!), , , Wed Mar 5 18:09:56 2003
Mr Hodge, That is only because she started first.
Cal Ender <Father@time.org>
Brighton le Sands, .., .., Wed Mar 5 14:53:38 2003
Babs: You beat me to it by exactly 1 year and 6 days! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!
John Hodge <>
WATERLOO, , , Wed Mar 5 11:01:30 2003
Dear Babs, What a lucky lass you are. with a whole half ticketfull of life safely and irrevocably stashed away where no charlie can come along and mess that stuff up. Pity those poor youngsters who don't have that sort of 100% security and are still stuck with a whole lot o' unguaranteed livin' to do! Think of the stress! Warmest Wishes for another lot of the same! I'm not joking, btw: I have just come back from the birthday of an ageing but still perky German lady who was a twenty-eight year old secretary in Schweinfurt during the famous raids of February and April, 1944. See you in twenty or thirty, then! Ciaou!

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Tue Mar 4 20:42:02 2003


Babs,

many happy returns s b-s
Sandgrounder Bontiscew-Smythe <>
Southport by the Sea?, Maybe?, , Tue Mar 4 17:02:57 2003


It was 50 years ago today.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Tue Mar 4 16:39:13 2003
Mickey Mouse is emblazened on the cup I have just posted to my sister in Anfield.
George <>
, Manchester, , Sun Mar 2 18:09:29 2003
A little bird tells me Liverpool won a game of football today. Can anyone confirm the truth of this statement?
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Noo Burbo, , , Sun Mar 2 16:52:16 2003
David Gray @<.> New York: Unlike Bill I am not so sure you are a U.S. American. E-1 Visa, Treaty trading, B-1 Tourist, green card aspirant maybe with, like me, some Merseyside roots perhaps, or are you a cyber-peeping confirmation that U.S.A. has indeed become the police state friends and contacts assure me it has? As someone who has lived in the Americas for over 40 years, North, East, West and South, treaty traded, and touristed, and whose grandchildren are proud U.S. citizens, I do not have contempt, (concern yes), for the U.S. portion of America, unless your usage of the word is taken from the Devil's Dictionary : "Contempt: the feeling of the prudent for an enemy who is too formidable to be safely opposed." In this 200th anniversary year of Lewis and Clark's expedition, to what lay west of the Missouri, may I suggest you read any of the books commemorating that epic voyage of discovery to realize that the land they crossed, and the aspirations they held, now no longer exists. Big business and a polifacetical people, invoking their respective God, descended in spirit from revolutionists and rebels, recognizing no social superiors, since all were constitutionally born equal, but accepting always there will be social inferiors, have seen to that. In a country subject to periodic bouts of hysteria U.S. Presidents have usually acted wisely and with great caution, and merit the greatest of respect. One hopes this tradition will be maintained and that USA will avoid being dragged into the wrong war, at the wrong time, at the wrong place and with the wrong enemy ( to borrow Gen. Bradley's criticism of Gen. MacArthur's strategy during the last Korean War). Americans not only dare to dissent,they are free to do so. They should accept that others also enjoy the same freedoms. What you now perceive as contempt might then be seen as the criticism it was intended to be. BTW I don't live in a Colombian greenhouse although we are suffering from the warming effect, thanks in no small measure to US policies.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Sat Mar 1 18:07:57 2003
David, your posting is a clear example of what we "Europeans" love about Americans: you come out with the most unbelievable tosh, and then get upset when we don't believe it.

As far as 9-11 is concerned, an awful lot of us got an almost overwhelming "chickens coming home to roost" sensation when we saw the images.

If what the U.S. is doing to Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein is a typical example of how the U.S. government treats its former employees, I think your Labour Relations laws should be revised...

And bearing in mind your comments about Israel, your definition of "terrorism" needs some looking into as well.

As for the "if you'd ever been there you'd know (yawn)..." I HAVE been there, and the American people are, on the whole, really fantastic! Friendly, warm, hospitable and generous to a fault! It's just a bloody shame they have no idea about politics and insist on electing tools, time after time.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Sat Mar 1 13:10:21 2003


I seem to remember a blind eye being turned to the financial support received by the IRA from the new home of anti terrorism. Noraid was mainly from New York, I recall.Plus ca change....... JB
John Burns <Jonb4@aol.com>
Malaria-on-Sea, , , Sat Mar 1 05:42:47 2003
Perfidious, you obviously have contempt for the U.S., but it wasn't your country that was attacked on Sep 11. The U.S. President comes across to Europeans as a stereotypical cowboy, but, like it or not, he is leading the world's most powerful country, and he is doing what can be done to fight back against terrorism. He and his administration heads are not stupid, in spite of how they are characterised in the press, and they certainly have might on their side. If you spent any time at all in the U.S., you would realise several things. People in the U.S. are an amazing cross-section of humanity - every ethnic and religious group on earth is represented, and their members are free to go about their activities, as long as they obey the laws of the land. People are not ridiculed for being 'different', as they often are in Europe. The U.S. is a very tolerant environment, in spite of what you may read in the press. Unlike Europe, people do not sneer at others' appearance or manners. Americans are frequently confident and loud, but these are traits that Europeans seem to resent and envy. Europeans seem to resent the spread of the U.S. culture (admittedly not sophisticated) and influence, but their own pretentious cultures are not sufficiently substantive to sustain themselves against that of the U.S. Now I think we all could do better in getting peace between Israel and its enemies, but have a look at a map of the middle east - the state of Israel is TINY. Look at the size of the neighboring countries, none of which is willing to spare an acre to help address the problem. As long as there are evil tyrants like Saddam Hussein somehow in control of whole countries, peace will never be obtainable. The world looked the other way while Hitler butchered his own citizens in the late 30s. The world has done so many times since (Cambodia, Rwanda, etc.). The U.N. continues to offer minimal value in addressing problems amongst nations. The French, in particular, grab the spotlight in their uniquely arrogant manner, having little regard for the misery that their diplomatic strutting prolongs. While you, Perfidious, live in a greenhouse, you should not throw stones at others.
David Gray <>
, New York, U.S., Sat Mar 1 04:41:33 2003
OK, I give in. Which three have already come to pass, and which one requires cloning? There ain't nothing like the Rael thing...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Sat Mar 1 00:00:55 2003
Babs. I presume by Nibaru you mean the Planet X and not some Japanese plant in your garden. If so you forgot about the Zetas who are already in two way communication with their earthly contact. But fear not Sree Vishiva Karma Veera Narayana Murthy, an avatar of Krishna, is also expected to drop in this year to establish a 108 year reign of dharma (righteousness). This was supposed to have been preceded by four years of: a rain of blood in towns and villages, the circulation of poor quality coins, the appearance of male goats and oxen that can be milked, and the appearance of many incurable diseases. 3 of these 4 preconditions seem to have been met already in various locations around the globe. Maybe a judicious mix of cloning and plastic surgery has enabled the other condition to be met also and the powers that be have kept it all top secret. We could be in for a busy spring/early summer. We'll have to keep a watch on this space.
Nancy <.>
, , , Fri Feb 28 20:55:07 2003
Too many words to read ~ end of decade crisis in progress ~ can't keep up with other stuff ~ who needs a war when the plant Nibaru is approaching?
Babs <>
, Southport, , Fri Feb 28 17:42:40 2003
Some local rubbish. Wheelie bins in Wavertree have been decorated by art students from the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts. Some carry the shield of Liverpool F.C. in recognition of recent form. In Wavertree also steps are being taken to return the Botanic Garden in the Park to its former glory. (JJ in Caracas may recall its glasshouses and ornamental gardens were severely damaged in an air raid on the 20th November 1940). The walled garden is an historically significant site with one of its key features being curved scrolled flower beds based on St George's Hall tiling. There are also plans under consideration to destroy an important piece of Formby's natural heritage, a popular attraction for tourists. 50,000 pine trees could be axed in order to expand the "desert wasteland" between Formby and Ainsdale beaches. The plan aims to encourage populations of natterjack toads, sand lizards and great crested newts by promoting the expansion of sand dunes.( Clive Warner in Mexico take note). What about the area's tree dwelling red squirrels and the sand-blasting of houses left exposed to strong sea winds? Local residents have protested. The area, which is bordered to the south by the Fisherman's footpath, provides a forest for squirrels and is a popular tourist walk next to Formby Golf Club. The Rt.Hon. M.P. for Crosby continues to toe the party line over Iraq, but the Rt.Hon. M.P. for Liverpool Walton did remind the Commons, when questioning the legality of a premptive strike against Iraq, that it was a matter of record that 73 consignments of biological and chemical weapons were exported to Saddam by the United States. Finally fishin' has not been good on the Mersey. Very few cod showing.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Fri Feb 28 14:24:44 2003
Bill: You state facts against which I have no argument. As for the observations, just as I said in previous postings, there are no cheers for democracy. You nearly always have to put up with the candidate the majority elected, whether you want to or not. In the case of America this time around, it has to put up with the candidate only a minority elected, and a banana state and questionable legal system proclaimed.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Fri Feb 28 02:20:44 2003
Perf, don't misunderstand me. I hold no more a brief for the French President than I do for the American. All politicians are hypocrites. It goes with the job. The problem is one of degrees.

The president of a country which is so lax in paying its contributions to the U.N. is using that same U.N. to give it a mandate to carry out a pre-emptive strike on a country which, however you bend it or twist it, DOES NOT FORM A THREAT, DIRECT OR INDIRECT to the U.S.A.

(Ted Turner was so ashamed of his country's tawdriness is paying its U.N. dues he is donating $1 billion of his own money to the U.N.)

The President of the U.S.A. is using a U.N resolution to justify the war; one of its major allies in the Middle East has chosen to ignore approximately 50 U.N. resolutions with the full collaboration of the aforementioned U.S.A.

You are either a member of the club, or you're not. It's rather like virginity; you is or you isn't...the expression "cherry-picking" comes to mind in relation to both concepts ;)

The U.S. WILL attack Iraq. The member for Texas East will follow him like the lap dog he is. I have a nephew in the army, who, given his training and experience may end up going out there. I don't want him to get damaged to protect the right of every U.S. citizen to drive a gas-guzzler.

When T.B. and George Dubyah do what kings in the past did, and lead their troops into battle, I will believe that they think their "crusade" is justified, till then I mistrust them all.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Feb 28 00:06:50 2003


If only Perfidious Albion and America had listened to their constituents and kept to themselves, instead of meddling in other nations' affairs over 60 years ago, the European superstate would already exist. I could have Uberbackener Spinat Mit Kase for lunch and call myself Franz Froschlein.
Francis Grenouille <poltron@chicago.com>
, , , Thu Feb 27 19:26:56 2003
After the bombings of earlier this week, the US embassy in Caracas has been closed, "until further notice." (Blimey!) Fortunately, my visa's current. To the purist who'd outpoint gleefully my Brit persona can enter the US visa-free, I mention that I have to leave here as a Venno, so called, and my visa does have to be current. But there's lotsa giys out there whose visas ain't. Jeepers! So begins isolation, according to certain jaundiced, albeit erstwhile enchanting, peepers.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Thu Feb 27 19:03:41 2003


Bill: Glad you now understand what I meant, even if I'm still struggling to do so. Your next question: Who said the war with Iraq is unnecessary? Even Jacques Chirac, finding himself between Iraq and a hard place, has still not yet pronounced such a war, at some future date, to be unnecessary. Also, I have never suggested that listening to constituents is a bad thing. Listening, interpreting and implementing are related but different and M. Chirac in this respect may have some difficulty in fathoming just who HIS constituents really are. As for the Schroeder-Chirac Brussels axis, ever since that last major hiccup of some 60 years ago, the Germans have become just as obnoxiously pacifist as they were once militarist, while the French, abject failures on all battlefields over the last couple of centuries, have been posturing and flexing muscle, like when Greenpeace interfered with their nuclear tests in the Pacific and they chose to simply blow up the offending boat. Schroeder and Chirac's thumbs-down to Bush and Blair has nothing to do with their listening to their constituents. It is a step towards their recently announced intention of creating a Franco-German superstate, around which minor European states, such as your present country of residence, will have to cluster. And of merging their countries' citizenship. They are currently taking advantage of their constituents' present, peaceful predispositions to further their own ambitions. Welcome to the latest round of old European realpolitik and await the consequences. As I said in a previous posting there are no cheers for democracy. You nearly always have to put up with the candidate the majority elected whether you want to or not. But as E.M.Forster pointed out, in an essay from which you once quoted on this Noticeboard, this unsatisfactory form of government at least provides some variety and does permit criticism. Something much more important than oil, arms trafficking, and opening Baghdad to French goodies from the local Carrefour.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Thu Feb 27 15:55:22 2003
No John, you shock me! Jacques Chirac is corrupt and egocentric? This is a first in politics! The man must be hung!

Seriously though, I am aware that J.C. is not completely unselfishly representing his constituents, I think that both he and Schroder realise that their interests are better represented in Brussels than Washington. More power to his elbow.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Feb 27 10:12:41 2003


Loved the history and the site. We will be over visiting relatives and friends in Grosvenor Ave in September 2003. Hazel and David Kewin
Hazel and David Kewin <hkewin@optushome.com.au>
Carrum, Melbourne, Australia, Thu Feb 27 09:49:03 2003
Alors, Bill! Whilst tangential only to the issue at hand, let's not forget to see matters against the backdrop of the last French election. Were Chirac anyone but top charlie, he would be in the dock for corruption, being for charges he managed to sidestep only because of being where he managed to stay, thanks not to his charm or democratic zeal but rather to Monsieur Le Penn's lack of same. If Jacques is listening to his voters, it's only because he feels it suits his face for the moment. Those French Pres chaps have a long mandate so Jacques will quite ok for the duration, a la "Je suis tout droit, Jacques," ahem.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Thu Feb 27 00:17:52 2003


OK Perf, now I understand what you meant. Next question; Jacques Chirac refuses, unlike Tony Blair to back up George Bush in his desire to start an unnecessary war. It would appear that he listens to his constituents; how is this a bad thing?

The French are, from time to time, guilty of protectionism. The Americans are constantly guilty of it. Maybe Jacques remembers what George Dubyah's reaction was when the U.S. put prohibitive tariffs on imported European Steel, and the E.U. raised objections to it, not least because it was illegal!!! What's French for "hey, acehole, it's payback time"? (lest we forget, the E.U. started in 1957 as the Franco-German Iron and Steel Agreement, and since then, France and Germany have looked after each other quite well!)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Feb 26 21:15:30 2003


Enough! not hungry.
Oliver <>
, London, , Wed Feb 26 20:47:17 2003
Caramelized endives for lunch and a glass or two of a clean, crisp, classic, Coastal Chardonnay. Too sad and shocked to attempt his blanc de volaille fermičre lardé de truffes et le foie gras chaud de canard au jus de truffe
Francis Grenouille <poltron@chicago.com>
, , , Wed Feb 26 20:13:22 2003
Dear Albion, I don't think that French diplomacy is pro-Arab but rather, in keeping with the French definition of the globe - "France and contiguous areas", (being areas serving solely to provide Air France with destinations,'abroad') - it is simply 'pro-France, regardless' and will remain pro whomsoever its chooses, weekly, merely to underline its superior sulture and to counter the Americans as de trop altogether. I can still remember from 1956 the signs painted up in Paris, "Yanqui, go home!" and that was a lot closer to the now overly emphasised D-Day landings in which, if memory serves, quite some Americans took part and died. If Hollywood serves, of course, the whole thing was American and they left some "tea bags" at a foreign jump-off point whose name is lost to history. It is as well to remember that, whilst not belittling anyone's wartime feats, and especially not the plucky Liverpool ferry boats at Dunquerque and the very brave maquis, eight out of ten German casualties of the war were on the Eastern front. Heiliges, Du! So, what has France contributed, beyond a very self interested contribution, based on English basic reasearch in solving the Rosetta Stone mystery? And glorious countryside and lovely bread and an ill transmitted revolution - look at what the brave revolutionaries did to the populace of Levallois - and a cuisine overly emphasising reputation (witness yesterday's suicide of a chef after a bad review, see "Top chef commits suicide" http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,903237,00.html) with a few notable exceptions, such as Pierre Clostermann's wonderful, "La Grand Cirque", published in the UK as "The Big Show"? Cheese, that's what. And lotsa. I leave out the wine bit, the grapes being the American ones imported after that dreadful disease episode the French had in the nineteenth C. Maybe its as well they have the monoploy on 'appellation controlée', otherwise some might be tempted to call them names.

So, Dear Grenouille, I am with you. Our French cousins simply don't care a tinkers about the rest of the world. But duplicity there is: how would you categorize the murder of Greenpeace personnel during the gratuitous sinking of the "Rainbow Warrior" by two French agents, subsequently decorated by Monsieur le Président, regardless of promises to bring the guilty to justice?
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Wed Feb 26 15:19:43 2003


As for Ali Rodriguez Araque, he is no longer OPEC general secretary, having been replaced by another Venezuelan to serve out his time after Alí called home by president Chavez to take charge of what has turned out to be the destructive dismantling of the state oil company voted most efficient globally, admittedly not a resounding accolade but nevertheless. So, on the state oil company front, there is now being set up an "Oil Council" affair, above the company's board under Alí, to tell it exactly what it's to do, all presided over by the national president. Thus, instead of being president of a potentially rich oil nation, Chavez has his very own oil company that the rest of the country depends on.

"Please, sir! Can I..."

That's that oil company that used to belong to the nation. Other nations like this are Iran and Libya, both with reduced outputs but where oil entities are entirely in the grip of their regime. As far as I know, Mr. Araque is, however, still on the editorial board of the Sao Paulo forum, along with Tirofijo, "Sureshot" Marulanda, the top FARC chappie.So, the "Project" is alive and well and living in Caracas. Notwithsatnding his Davos reception, I am not struck either with Mr. Lula, among whose early actions was to dispatch, at international prices, natch, gasoline ships to Venezuela to alleviate the stoppage and help Chavez to breast the storm. And Colombian guerillas wounded in action are given medical care in Venezuelan hospitals, the while.

For those who've not had enough of Venezuela and its dangerous tendancies as an integral part of a wider plan, you may feel I was being remiss were I not to mention the new education ministry initiative whereby our children and youngsters can opt for scholarships to go to Arab nations for free to study Islam, the Koran, Arab language, literature and, oddly, philology. The blurb tells of how we are really culturally much closer to Arabs and Islam than to Spain and the Western world, heretofore mistakenly seen as natural cultural family. Sala'am alecum, chaps! This is not new. I did the translation a year or more ago of the official stuff for distribution telling all about the second OPEC heads of state meeting in Caracas in 2000. The government went to great lengths to explain how the Spanish 700-year shoulder-rub with Arab culture was but a 'breather' for that culture on its way to South America. There were all manner of examples from music and poetry and so on and so on. Lotsa 'so on'.

For real McCoy background, in audio, on the advancing demise of democracy in Venezuela, with an English language option, put on your loudspeakers and access http://www.diatriba.net/itv/diatriba%205%202003%20ciao%20cd%2004%20the%20futile%20revolution/

And another thing, ... Well, maybe you're right. I shall leave it there.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Wed Feb 26 15:18:03 2003


"When two tribes go to war, a point is all that you can score." Frankie Goes To Hollywood
Renta quote <>
Liverpool, , , Wed Feb 26 13:55:09 2003
"War is everywhere for those foolish enough to look for it." Ronaldinho.
doncorleone <>
, , , Wed Feb 26 09:12:44 2003
Big vote tonight in the House of Cobblers. 100 plus Labour MPs expected to vote against Tory Blair's stance with the Noo oil gangsters (ie. expressing the wishes of the people who elected them). Whereas Tory MPs expected to vote FOR Mr Tory. If it wasn't for thousands of innocent Iraqis facing "liberation" through death, it would be farcical. On another note, The Mayor was speaking to one of Burbo's clients yesterday - a company run by an Iraqi Kurd friendly with the Kurdish "Prime Minister". Already loads of business deals in place to benefit from Saddam's demise. War is business n'est ce pas?
Andy Melia <>
Noo Burbo, , , Wed Feb 26 07:48:31 2003
Perfidious Albion just because we still reserve the right to treat francophone Africa as our colonies, Middle Eastern dictators as our clients, the European Union as an appendage of Greater France and the United Nations as a global French letter to prevent the spread of the dreaded American claps, of thunder, brimstone and bushfire, does not make our French diplomacy duplicitous. We do these things openly and we do not think twice about them.
Francis Grenouille <poltron@chicago.com>
, , , Wed Feb 26 05:36:40 2003
TotalFinaElf signing a huge contract with Iraq has nothing to do with Gallic opposition to the Blair/Bush axis. JB
John Burns <Jonb4@aol.com>
Malaria-on-Sea, , , Wed Feb 26 05:01:00 2003
Bill: In answer to your question I am not at all sure but here goes: France that "petulant prima donna of realpolitik" and "cheese eating surrender monkey" has P.O'd Washington. Dilatory French diplomacy is clearly pro Arab and has prevented the placing of certain Arab terrorist groups, like Hizbullah, on the E.U. terrorism list; it has also intervened to prevent the inclusion of Colombian rebel groups on the same list. Brazil, renowned in the Cono Sur as a feijoada eating surrender monkey when push comes to shove, is also upsetting Washington as it adopts a more independent position in its bilateral relations with its northern neighbours, openly in support of Chavez in Venezuela and refusing to categorize Colombia's FARC as a terrorist organization. Both sleeping giants have a heavily subsidized but privileged position in their respective geographical regions, and both have a penchant for pursuing populist policies, enjoying ideological flights of fantasy, discriminating against productive foreign investment, exercising State control over economic sectors, and imposing excessive tariff and non-tariff protectionism. Both claim to have special relationships with Africa. Both produce footballers of outstanding ability and flair. What's the Merseyside connection to all this? You may well ask! Well the patron of Brazilian duplicity and diplomacy was one Baron of Rio Branco, who as plain Sr. Jose Maria da Silva Paranhos, learned how to think twice before saying nothing when acting as Brazilian Consul in Liverpool, in the early 1900's. The French connection to Merseyside is less clear but residual side effects can still be seen from the Kop at Anfield Road on Saturday afternoons.
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Wed Feb 26 03:00:55 2003
Brazil "South America's France"? What ARE you talking about, man?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Feb 25 22:48:29 2003
An expanded, musical version of William Roscoe's poem was recorded by Roger Glover and Guests in 1974. In 1807 the poem tickled US President Thomas Jefferson's fancy. You can order a 3 piece porcelain plate, bowl and mug featuring the characters, from Monticello, the home of Thomas Jefferson website: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/monticellostore/120086.html
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Tue Feb 25 19:31:54 2003
JJ: It probably is a dead loss trying to debate with a pair of brackets but, as a parenthesis, I'd like to raise the small matter of THE PROJECT which may help to throw some further light on your increased darkening. Following Che and his failure in the 60's to impose his impossible dream of communist totalitarian governments throughout Latinamerica, and as Marxist ideology fell out of fashion following the collapse of the Soviet Union, there took place, in 1990, a Forum of the still faithful, in Sao Paulo, which was convened by the then President of the Brazilian Workers Party, Lula Da Silva,( now Brazil's democratically elected President). Venezuela was represented at the forum by Ali Rodriguez who, I believe, is still OPEC's General Secretary today. There and then was developed the 'Project' whose main objective was, and presumably still is, the reformation and implementation of Che's plan to bring a Cuban style revolution to all of Latinamerica; a revolution this time to be financed by Venezuelan oil and laundered Andean drugmoney, supported by Cuban ideology and a Sandinista resurgence in Nicaragua, waged on the frontline by Colombia's 'freedom fighters', and aided and abetted , (let us not forget the duplicity of South America's France), by Brazilian diplomacy. It is no accident that following the recent terrorist bombings in Colombia, Brazil has refused to label the perpetrators 'terrorists' since by doing so Brazil would not be able to mediate on their behalf in future. It is no accident that Chavez still uses the implied legitimacy of the ballot box four years ago to suppress democratic expression with force and to impose a totalitarian establishment in Venezuela. What has this to do with Crosby? You may well ask! Nothing really, but I have noted that the UK's democratically elected leader also appears to be ignoring the wishes of his electorate, and more importantly perhaps, the esteemed counsel of the Great Burbobank's Mayor. No cheers for democracy! Time for secession ? And the 'Project',( a fuller report is available in Spanish on request), may be of some interest to novelist Clive Warner for the development of his "Contractor".
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Tue Feb 25 17:37:55 2003
Well John, the pictures shown on Dutch telly don't lie, I assume, and they don't show any scenes of happy Venezualan peasants dancing in the streets.

And what a novel use for pots and pans. Mind you, if you've nothing decent to eat, you might as well bash them together, what?

Then again, the term "Non-aligned nations" is a bit of an oxymoron.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Feb 25 13:03:20 2003


Dear Anon Brackets, Your historical acuity will long since have reminded you that exactly the same statement could have been made at certain stages of both prewar Germany and Italy when, unlike the latest one, it would have been true. I am sure you know what a load of bozos those heads of famously undemocratic states are. Tell me, in which of their 'powerful grouping' of countries, 'unaligned' from an ill defined something, would you like to assert your right to dissent, then? Cuba, maybe? Or Malaysia? I am fed up with people abroad unquestioningly falling for the governmental party line, however incongruous, in the event, mostly French and esp. of Le Monde Diplomatique, and who are traditionally ready to tell us what's what here and join the fray from afar, "Encore un peu de brie, mon vieux?" down to the last drop of local blood. And also of all their superciliously ignorant acolytes, few of whom are proud or sure enough of their own parentage to leave names an' things. It being a dead loss to debate with a pair of brackets, I shall leave it there.

Dear Spotter, What a delighful little piece. Has it been set to music? It certainly looks promising as a ditty for singing and acting out, becostumed all, during the performance of an elementary school end-of-term do. I think.

... & God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Tue Feb 25 01:48:32 2003


Written by a gentleman of Lodge Lane, around 1810. "Come take up your hats, and away let us haste to the Butterfly's Ball, and the Grasshopper's Feast. The trumpeter, gad-fly, has summon'd the crew, and the Revels are now only waiting for you. So said little Robert; and pacing along his merry companions came forth in a throng. And on the smooth grass, by the side of Ince Wood, beneath a broad oak that for ages had stood, saw the children of earth, and the tenants of air, for an evening's amusement together repair. And there came the beetle, so blind and so black, who carried the ant, his friend, on his back. And there was the gnat and the dragon-fly too, with all their relations, green, orange, and blue. And there came the moth, with his plumage of down, and the hornet in jacket of yellow and brown; who with him the wasp, his companion, did bring, but they promis'd, that evening, to lay by their sting. And the sly little doormouse crept out of his hole, and brought to the feast his blind brother, the mole. And the snail, with his horns peeping out of his shell, came from a great distance, the depth of a well. A mushroom their table, and on it was laid a water-dock leaf, which a table-cloth made. The meats were various, to each of their taste, and the bee brought her honey to crown the repast. Then close on his haunches, so solemn and wise,the frog from a corner, look'd up to the skies.And the squirrel well pleas'd such diversions to see, mounted high overhead, and look'd down from a tree. Then out came the spider, with finger so fine, to show his dexterity on the tight line. From one branch to another, his cobwebs he slung, then quick as an arrow he darted along, but just in the middle, -- Oh! shocking to tell, from his rope, in an instant, poor harlequin fell. Yet he touch'd not the ground, but with talons outspread, hung suspended in air, at the end of a thread, then the grasshopper came with a jerk and a spring, very long was his leg, though short was his wing; he took but three leaps, and was soon out of sight, then chirp'd his own praises the rest of the night.With step so majestic the snail did advance,and promis'd the gazers a Minuet to dance. But they all laugh'd so loud that he pull'd in his head, and went in his own little chamber to bed. Then, as evening gave way to the shadows of night, their watchman, the glow-worm, came out with a light. Then home let us hasten, while yet we can see, for no watchman is waiting for you and for me. So said little Robert, and pacing along, his merry companions returned in a throng".
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Mon Feb 24 21:15:27 2003
Heads of State from 116 countries in the Non-Aligned Group of Nations meeting in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, have expressed their support for the democratic government of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez Frias. A statement reads that President Chavez Frias was democratically elected and enjoys the support of a majority of voters; the powerful grouping reiterate its desire for a fair, equitable and pacific solution to the institutional crisis and that it will be reached with the framework of legality and constitutionality.
and <then>
there is, another, point of view, Mon Feb 24 19:58:31 2003
Hotrock, If oldish poems are getting cited, don't leave out the one about McCrae's fatal fields, especially because our Burbo pub is the Brooke, and is there honey for tea with those who all arrive at three? To think we go for daytrips to places nearby these days...

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow/ Between the crosses, row on row/ That mark our place; and in the sky/ The larks, still bravely singing, fly/ Scarce heard amid the guns below./

We are the Dead. Short days ago/ We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,/ Loved and were loved, and now we lie/ In Flanders fields./

Take up our quarrel with the foe:/ To you from failing hands we throw/ The torch; be yours to hold it high./ If ye break faith with us who die/ We shall not sleep, though poppies grow/ In Flanders fields./


flip side <pistols@dawn.biz>
Crosby Seabank, .., .., Mon Feb 24 16:13:53 2003


And then, written at Liverpool Hopkinslianly by our very own contemporary local parish-man, in 1880:

FELIX RANDAL the farrier, O he is dead then? my duty all ended,/ Who have watched his mould of man, big-boned and hardy-handsome/ Pining, pining, till time when reason rambled in it and some/ Fatal four disorders, fleshed there, all contended?

Sickness broke him. Impatient he cursed at first, but mended/ 5 Being anointed and all; though a heavenlier heart began some/ Months earlier, since I had our sweet reprieve and ransom/ Tendered to him. Ah well, God rest him all road ever he/ offended!/

This seeing the sick endears them to us, us too it endears./ My tongue had taught thee comfort, touch had quenched thy tears,/ 10 Thy tears that touched my heart, child, Felix, poor Felix Randal;/ How far from then forethought of, all thy more boisterous years,/ When thou at the random grim forge, powerful amidst peers,/ Didst fettle for the great grey drayhorse his bright and battering sandal!


hotrock <hitrock@frog.com>
crosby, .., eng, Mon Feb 24 15:32:59 2003


Dear Mister Mayor, I have seen snapshots of you in 'cognito' so I am at a loss to figure how you must look when in an 'incognito' getup. Are they generally available or only for bona fide dignitaries of Mayoral rank and above? Would a Foreign Secretary rate an 'incognito' rating suffficient to allow his rental of the corresponding outfit. Is beard glue inlcuded or extra? Do they have a van Gogh style, complete with detatchable ear, perhaps? Are there degrees of 'cognito betwqeen 'in' and regular, as for instance, 'semicognito'("Ah'd know them legs anywhere!"), or just the two options? Is there room for market expansion or have you got the whole cognitinuum cornered? If so, what about tax receipts for the Republic of Burbo Bank? Are they available for scrutiny? Or just for looking at, even?

While Naomi Klein has written an article defending the president here, mainly by attacking his opposition, there is an application at the UN for his government's being declared 'rogue', being a government that actively or passively supports terrorism. Go Naomi! The families of policemen killed and wounded yesterday by the government's urban guerilla contingents, the three young soldiers executed last week, hands tied behind their backs and 19 dead (and 100+ wounded) last April and whose deaths haven't been investigated will be happy to see the insight from Canada. That girl really must have radar eyes á la Superman to be able to discern what no-one in Venezuela even suspects. Maybe President Chavez's acknowledgement of Saddam Hussein as his 'brother' and his blowing a kiss (Yes, I saw it!) to Fidel's departing plane at the international airport and interviews with the FARC ambassador here and the mysterious 60,000 cartridges for AK-47's (as used by the FARC but not for any rifle in Venezuela) imported recently triggered some special all-seeing device at the Klein level, the existence of which other mortals simply can't appreciate. Oh, and she was able to look beyond the six thousand million missing dollars too. You gotta give it to a bird with a feisty approach like that.

And Dear Babs, Half term? Half term? What do you teach then, lass?

.....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, jj, Mon Feb 24 15:02:24 2003


fact looks good andy ~ this week would have been an ideal time for me to visit being half term. But worrya know the rail link between Southport and Liverpool is closed for maintenance:(
Babs <>
Souhtport, , , Mon Feb 24 10:44:29 2003
Today the Mayor made an incognito visit to FACT the new centre for film art and creative technology in Liverpool. It most definitely has the Burbo 'seal' of approval. See www.fact.co.uk
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Burbo Art Centre, Make Art Not War, , Sat Feb 22 16:46:22 2003
Ooops!! It looks like the glaziers are required once more at Murat Street - Shirley the Sociopath has struck again...
THE ALLSEEING EYE <>
, , , Sat Feb 22 15:27:10 2003
You are right Babs, very boring I am popping over to http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/crosbycontactclub/ See you there.
alsobored <>
, , , Fri Feb 21 18:49:31 2003
boring
Babs <>
Southport, , , Fri Feb 21 16:37:24 2003
I'm a trainee Legal Secretary!! Matrimonial!! Professional!!

BEWARE OF
DANGEROUS WOMEN!!!

Me kids were taken off me because my fiance was a coke-dealer!!
THESE PEOPLE REALLY DO EXIST, AND ARE LIVING IN A STREET NEAR YOU....

Van Helsing <>
, , , Fri Feb 21 14:34:06 2003
Perhaps the good people of Crosby will be spared the terror after all...

The female urban terrorist who tried to worm her way back into the town got her comeuppance yesterday.

In full view of rush-hour traffic at Alexandra Hall roundabout, she received a full-on kick to the stomach from her "fiance." What a scene! Writhing in agony on the ground, this human flotsam was picked up by passers-by and taken to his parents home. No welcome was forthcoming though...Well done Ed, for speaking the only language she understands...

Did she tell you she was pregnant again???
THE ALLSEEING EYE <>
, , , Fri Feb 21 12:49:50 2003


Any local residents opposed to Blair's stance on Iraq, why not write to your MP today? Mrs Claire Curtis-Thomas, The House Of Commons, London SW1A 0AA.

An even easier way is to send an online fax. Go to www.upmystreet.co.uk/ type in your postcode then click on "Your representatives" then follow the online advice.

To get any action, say that you will not vote for Labour again whilst Toney Blair remains PM. Request politely but sincerely that she call for a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister. Do it now before it's too late. (Please?)
Disgusted of Sefton <>
, , , Fri Feb 21 11:10:59 2003


The mentally-ill part-time prostitute wandering around Crosby again hasn't changed her sociopathic spots....

While waiting for her none-too-quick-on-the-uptake "boyfriend" in a local bar tonight, she "asked out" the barman and pressed her phone number into his hand...

Pity the poor, foolish people of Blundellsands who must act out this Faustian bargain to the bitter end, yet again...
THE ALLSEEING EYE <>
, , , Thu Feb 20 00:24:18 2003


I am writing a postwar novel set on Merseyside. (This will be my third book, the first was published last year.) The era is the early Beatles years (the Merseybeat times). It's a 'coming of age' story with a certain amount of magical realism. Three lads explore the beaches and dunes from Southport to Bootle, including especially the abandoned Fort Crosby. I'd be delighted to exchange mail with anyone who remembers the era. Details of the clubs and dancehall scene would be of special interest. - Clive Warner
Clive Warner <oldvinyl@hotmail.com>
, Monterrey, Mexico, Wed Feb 19 16:49:07 2003
Sory Punx, but I really was correct. I did, if you remember forcast spring in another six weeks, even though I did NOT see my shadow. ww
Wiarton Willystein <>
Colpoys Bay, , , Wed Feb 19 14:14:23 2003
nice new baths shame about same old s***e working ther a p**s head. a robber and a total 21 yr old w****r.
frank <>
, , southport, Tue Feb 18 23:19:09 2003
I told you. Wiarton Willie got it wrong yet again. An early end to winter, indeed. Tell that to the snow ploughs.
Punxsutawney Phil <P-phil@oldoakstump.met>
, , , Tue Feb 18 19:28:53 2003
Now remember, George, if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. Now how about a "Gulf of Ton (oops) Gulf of Persia Resolution" Here, Tony, come on boy!
J. Goebbels <>
, State Security, , Mon Feb 17 17:10:26 2003
ffranco: I guess that's what you would call your irony.
bbrian ee. <>
, Helluva State, , Mon Feb 17 16:30:43 2003
Today's news over here:- The Americans are no longer calling chips FRENCH FRIES. The new name is "FREEDOM FRIES". I wonder why.
ffrank in canada <hotmail>
, , , Mon Feb 17 14:01:11 2003
Good Heavens, I was going to post something but I won't. Maybe tomorrow or after we have heard from jj.
ffrankensteinincanada <@hotmail>
, , , Mon Feb 17 03:04:45 2003
The Heavens be praised, your worship, thank goodness somebody rattled your cage. We thought that some o them terrorists had got yuz.
Brian E. <>
Awlsveeyull, Sad State, , Sun Feb 16 17:46:15 2003
AN OPEN LETTER TO MR&MRS JEM OF NUMERO DOS A, CAMINO COLLEGIO NORTE...

What has the gentleman offering the flat in Eshe Road North ever done to you, for you to wish him so ill???
Have you seen the exquisite lead-lighted windows and doors there? No doubt, they have graced his property since it was built. 100 YEARS!!!
Would you like to take a guess on how long they could remain intact, if your destructive little PARASITE had managed, with your help, to worm her way inside??? A FORTNIGHT, PERHAPS????!!!
Not very neighbourly of you, is it? Totally socially irresponsible, in fact!!! You must be extremely desperate, or in total DENIAL!!!
THERE IS AN ELEPHANT IN YOUR LIVING-ROOM AND YOU ARE ALREADY UP TO YOUR NECKS IN DUNG!!!

While you continue to humour her in this embrace of death, she follows the familiar, fatal course of her train-wreck excuse for a life...

Last Sunday, while you were discussing amongst yourselves re-launching this MISSILE on the unsuspecting people of Crosby - ON YOUR OWN NEIGHBOURS, NO LESS - she spent the afternoon seeking out FORMER BEDMATES, trying to raise a POSSE, bent on REVENGE....

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, GRASP THIS NETTLE, NOW!!!!
THE ALLSEEING EYE <>
, , , Sat Feb 15 14:53:19 2003


I'm marching today. I've got my doggie, my doggie bag, my Raleigh bicycle, my bandana, my placard, I am overdue for a haircut, oh, a megaphone and an AK47.
ffrankenstein <canada>
, , War's not cricket, Sat Feb 15 14:03:51 2003
BAN (Bonnie against Noo) urges all fellow canines to join the anti-genocide for oil marches around the world today. Woof!
Bonnie the Dog <>
Burbo Bank, , , Sat Feb 15 07:42:58 2003
TCC poets may find something of interest at the following: http://www.bewrite.net/read/poets2.htm in particular Clive Warner's ' High Tide at Hightown', 'Fort Crosby' 'Mersey' and 'Shipping Forecast'. Clive Warner's next novel is set in Crosby, Fort Crosby and the sand dunes and beaches of Hightown and is outlined at: www.chatcircuit.com/~qbmaniaccc/novelist/index2.html
P.Albion <fithcheallach@yahoo.com>
, , , Sat Feb 15 06:13:05 2003
OK Babs, I'll bring you one and one for the bird that I'm with at the back. Don't care much for the movie......too much boring American propaganda. Can't wait for the "Sylvester and Bugs Bunny cartoons. ffrank <Back row at the Regent>
, , Wake me up when the war starts, Sat Feb 15 04:22:05 2003


What of the vastly ambitious individuals who have become so effectively powerful because of their ability to remain invisible while operating behind the national scenery?...
Always their victories are in the name of some powerful soverign-state. The real power structures are always the invisible ones behind the visible ones...

In our comprehensive review of published academically accepted history we continually explore for the invisible power structure behind the visible kings, prime ministers, presidents and other official head men, as well as for the underlying hidden causes of individual wars and the long, drawn out campaigns not disclosed by the widely published and popularly accepted causes of these wars....

R. Buckminster Fuller - The Critical Path
The High Cabal <>
, , , Sat Feb 15 02:08:44 2003


Only Northern England JJ?
Phizynot <aph.uk@virgin.net>
Down South somewhere..., , , Fri Feb 14 20:08:37 2003
The First Watergate Law of American Politics states: "No matter how paranoid you are, what the government is actually doing is worse than you imagine." The Second Watergate Law states: "Don't believe anything until it's been officially denied." Both laws are still on the books.

William Blum, author of Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II and Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower
PAX AMERICANA <>
, , , Fri Feb 14 15:37:07 2003


I just wanted to assure TCC'ers that:

No, I didn't know thee chap;

I had nothing to do with it;

I have no BA shares;

I like many part of Northern England;

I am Central casting's idea of a nice guy;

In point of fact, I am generally numbered among the more prominent members of "None of the above" so my 'nice guy' status is virtually uncheckable but;

You can take my word for it.

.....& God Bless
jj <jj>
Caraquaboeeng, .., Vendles, Fri Feb 14 13:20:10 2003


Happy Valentines day to all XXXX. Frank ~ just ONE cornetto???
Babs <>
Southport, , , Fri Feb 14 08:16:17 2003
I'll have your spam then, I love spam...

Spam, spam, spam, spam
A. Viking <>
, Gotenburg, , Fri Feb 14 00:21:36 2003


Good memory jj. It was Christine Keeler and Mandy Rice Davies. Good fodder for the News of the World. This story really was WORLD news.....And Babs, no ice cream it's bad for the figure. If you must have one, I believe that the "Wall's" truck can be found by Southport beach.
ffrank <ffrankincanada>
, , , Thu Feb 13 22:51:53 2003
Is her name Sheena Willson then?
Slowontheuptakeintheseparts <>
, , , Thu Feb 13 20:37:25 2003
Ice cream souns good, fed up of spam butties.
George <>
, , , Thu Feb 13 19:38:44 2003
Just driven past the new baths and they look fab! Wonder how much of a cut the developers are taking though - how much are they going to charge to get in?
Sarah Chadwell <>
Crosby, , , Thu Feb 13 17:35:35 2003
Thanks for the welcome diversion, digression etc. JJ, whew! back to earth!
Brian E. <>
, Sunshine State, , Thu Feb 13 16:38:17 2003
I am amazed at the availability of choc n' nut Cornettos in Crosby and environs, being Southport and othersuchlies. And if that's an oddity, what about 'environs' which, according to my Shorter Oxford bought cheap in an offer, has no singular 'environ' to keep company with? There ain't no 'environ' for 'environs' but there is one in the guise of a verbule, meaning things like surround and so on. This does cast an aspersion or two on 'environment', being that, in the absence of a legit environ, where does 'environment' come from and, more importantly to the psycho community, 'environmental'? I think we are being short changed here on a scale of 1 to 7 pounds and three ounces. Or poles, rods, perches, whatever. "Two hundredweight please and no slack this week, if you'd be so ruddy kind!"

Back to those Cornettos, we have them here, at least for the next few weeks, what with everything running out now, even though the local Spanish would call an ice-cream cornet a 'barquilla' where the 'qu' comes out a a 'k' and the 'll' approximates to a 'y' giving a phonetic rendering approaching 'barkiya' optically not unlike 'barkeeler' which brings me to the whole point, namely, John Profumo's anniversary at the War Office as was before it ceased so to be. And Candy Rice.

I say Candy when it was Mandy because, with spotter and Ozzy looking at Mandy's hind quarters, I'm keeping at a safe distance, way out beyond square leg.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
Caracule, gas-free these days..., .., Vendles, Thu Feb 13 15:19:14 2003


ATTENTION....ALL CROSBY/Waterloo LANDLORDS

A mentally-ill female "con-artist" is looking to rent in this vicinity!!!

BE WARNED!!!!
If you rent to this person, you will sooner-or-later experience any combination of the following.....
NON-PAYMENT OF RENT
DRUG-DEALERS FREQUENTLY VISITING YOUR PROPERTY
CONSTANT ANITISOCIAL BEHAVIOUR
COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBOURS/OTHER TENANTS
THREATS FROM HER AND HER FAMILY/"BOYFRIENDS"
LOSS OF NEIGHBOURING TENANTS
DAMAGE/DESTRUCTION OF YOUR PROPERTY...

BEWARE!! This person is initially quite presentable/attractive and may have a male in tandem...
A psychopath and expert manipulator, several local landlords already have cause to regret their encounter...

DESCRIPTION: Attractive slim female with a passing resemblance to Zeta Jones.
SURNAME: the same as Britain's most popular Motoring Correspondent (take note: this is one EXTREME MACHINE you do not want to be "taken for a ride" in!!!
FIRSTNAME: the same as a female Cardiff singer who sang 3 James Bond themes...

CROSBY LANDLORDS ASSOCIATION <>
, , , Thu Feb 13 10:46:16 2003


Get me a choc 'n' nut Cornetto on your way back will yer?
Babs <>
S'port, , , Thu Feb 13 07:55:48 2003
Is there an intermission, I have to go to the bog.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , C A N A D A, Thu Feb 13 03:38:16 2003
Quiet, innit?
Brian E. <>
, Nervous State, , Thu Feb 13 00:13:53 2003
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - HERMANN GOERING, 1946
THE COMMON PEOPLE <>
, , , Wed Feb 12 09:42:36 2003
The only long messages I read are jj's. zzzzzzzzzzzz
Babs <>
, Snoozeport, , Wed Feb 12 08:06:11 2003
BURP!
Bonnie the Dog <>
, , , Wed Feb 12 07:24:16 2003
The deluge of info. is actually counter-productive. I'm all for URLs. Mind you, the psycho-analysis was quite funny!
Brian E. <>
, Sunshine State, , Wed Feb 12 03:00:53 2003
Listen, Mr/Ms Copy and Paste If you think we should read all these "important" documents why don't you paste them as URLs and let us decide whether or not to visit the sites. I'm all for free speech, but this constant tirade of postings is getting on the nerves of us regular readers. Just give it a rest and us a break, please.
The Voice of (T)reason <>
, , , Wed Feb 12 01:46:36 2003
Please let me know when these arseholes have finished their ravings - the're all the bluddy same, & then maybe we can get back to a lighter bit of nonesence! sks
Salty <>
, , , Wed Feb 12 01:30:32 2003
Is the President Nuts?
Diagnosing Dubya
by CAROL WOLMAN, M.D.
Many people, inside and especially outside this country, believe that the American president is nuts, and is taking the world on a suicidal path. As a board-certified psychiatrist, I feel it's my duty to share my understanding of his psychopathology. He's a complicated man, under tremendous pressure from both his family/junta, and from the world at large. So the following is offered with humility and questioning, in the form of a differential diagnosis.

From the Freudian point of view:

Dubya may be acting out a classical Oedipal drama--overcome Daddy to get Mommy. By deposing Saddam, when his father did not, he may want to prove himself more worthy of his mother's love. His rationale that he is avenging the assassination attempt on George, Sr., may be a reaction formation- his way of hiding the true motive from himself.

From the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Fourth Edition:

Antisocial Personality Disorder--301.7

There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others since age 15 years as indicated by at least three of the following: 1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest; 2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure; 5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others; 7) lack of remorse by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated or stolen from others.

Another possibility from DSM IV:

Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly Multiple Personality Disorder) 300.14

A) The presence of two or more distinct identities, each with its own enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to and thinking about the environment and self.

B) At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person's behavior.

This disorder is typical of people raised by satanic cults, and might explain how Dubya can think of himself as a born-again Christian and yet worship money, oil and profit, and sanction killing thousands of innocent Iraqi and Afghani children.
The President's Analyst <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 19:56:48 2003


Another possibility:

Narcissistic personality disorder 301.81

1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance- exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements;

2) in preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or ideal love;

3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people

4) requires excessive admiration;

5) has a sense of entitlement- unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations;

6) is interpersonally exploitative;

7) lacks empathy, is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;

9) shows arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes.

This set of characteristics may describe Rumsfeld and Cheney better than Dubya.

Or, for those who feel that he's just a puppet for others:

Dependent Personality Disorder 301.6

1) has difficulty making everyday decisions without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others;

2) needs others to assume responsibility for most major areas of his life;

3) has difficulty expressing disagreement with others because of fear of loss of support or approval;

4) has difficulty initiating projects or doing things on his own because of a lack of self-confidence in judgment or abilities.

5. goes to excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others, to the point of doing things that are unpleasant.

From a Jungian point of view:

Dubya may be identifying with an archetype (as Hitler did with the ubermensch)--something out of Revelations, perhaps, whereby he sees himself as an instrument of God's will to bring about Armageddon.

Dr. Carol Wolman is a board certified psychiatrist, in practice for 30 years. She can be reached at: cwolman@mcn.org
The President's Analyst <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 19:56:19 2003


Yep Wake up and smell the coffee - go put the kettle on please.
George <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 18:41:00 2003
Is not Crosby part of this earth, the West, Great Britain?

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
WE ARE ALL IN THIS NOW!!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 17:59:38 2003


This is getting f*****g stupid. Stop it. We're all versed and intelligent enough to make up our own minds without this annoying s**t that some idiot is writing. It's called the Crosby Channel - capiche??
the don <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 17:17:24 2003
To Kill Iraq: The Reasons Why

by Michael Parenti

In October 2002, after several days of full-dress debate in the House and Senate, the US Congress fell into line behind almost-elected president George W. Bush, giving him a mandate to launch a massive military assault against the already battered nation of Iraq. The discourse in Congress was marked by its usual cowardice. Even many of the senators and representatives who voted against the president's resolution did so on the narrowest procedural grounds, taking pains to tell how they too detested Saddam Hussein, how they agreed with the president on many points, how something needed to be done about Iraq but not just yet, not quite in this way. So it is with Congress: so much political discourse in so narrow a political space. Few of the members dared to question the unexamined assumptions about US virtue, and the imperial right of US leaders to decide which nations shall live and which shall die. Few, if any, pointed to the continual bloody stream of war crimes committed by a succession of arrogant US administrations in blatant violation of human rights and international law.

Pretexts for War

Bush and other members of his administration have given varied and unpersuasive reasons to justify the "war"---actually a one-sided massacre--- against Iraq. They claim it is necessary to insure the safety and security of the Middle East and of the United States itself, for Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear missiles. But UN inspection teams have determined that Iraq has no such nuclear capability and actually has been in compliance with yearly disarmament inspections.

As for the fact that Iraq once had factories that produced chemical and bacteriological weapons, whose fault was that? It was the United States that supplied such things to Saddam. This is one of several key facts about past US-Iraq relations that the corporate media have consistently suppressed. In any case, according to UN inspection reports, Iraq's C&B warfare capability has been dismantled. Still the Bushites keep talking about Iraq's dangerous "potential." As reported by the Associated Press (2 November 2002), Undersecretary of State John Bolton claimed that "Iraq would be able to develop a nuclear weapon within a year if it gets the right technology." If it gets the right technology? What does that say about anything? The truistic nature of this assertion has gone unnoticed. Djibouti, Qatar, and New Jersey would be able to develop nuclear weapons if they got "the right technology."

Through September and October of 2002, the White House made it clear that Iraq would be attacked if it had weapons of mass destruction. Then in November 2002, Bush announced he would attack if Saddam denied that he had weapons of mass destruction. So if the Iraqis admit having such weapons, they will be bombed; and if they deny having them, they still will be bombed--whether they have them or not.

The Bushites also charged Iraq with allowing al Qaeda terrorists to operate within its territory. But US intelligence sources themselves let it be known that the Iraqi government was not connected to Islamic terrorist organizations. In closed sessions with a House committee, when administration officials were repeatedly asked whether they had information of an imminent threat from Saddam against US citizens, they stated unequivocally that they had no such evidence (San Francisco Chronicle, 20 September 2002). Truth be told, the Bush family has closer ties to the bin Laden family than does Saddam Hussein. No mention is made of how US leaders themselves have allowed terrorists to train and operate within our own territory, including a mass murderer like Orlando Bosch. Convicted of blowing up a Cuban airliner, Bosch walks free in Miami.


WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:59:14 2003


Bush and company seized upon yet another pretext for war: Saddam has committed war crimes and acts of aggression, including the war against Iran and the massacre of Kurds. But the Pentagon's own study found that the gassing of Kurds at Halabja was committed by the Iranians, not the Iraqis (Times of India, 18 September 2002). Another seldom mentioned fact: US leaders gave Iraq encouragement and military support in its war against Iran. And if war crimes and aggression are the issue, there are the US invasions of Grenada and Panama to consider, and the US-sponsored wars of attrition against civilian targets in Mozambique, Angola, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Yugoslavia, and scores of other places, leaving hundreds of thousands dead. There is no communist state or "rogue nation" that has such a horrific record of military aggression against other countries over the last two decades.

With all the various pretexts for war ringing hollow, the Bushites resorted to the final indictment: Saddam was a dictator. The United States stood for democracy and human rights. It followed that US leaders were obliged to use force and violence to effect regime change in Iraq. Again, we might raise questions. There is no denying that Saddam is a dictator, but how did he and his crew ever come to power? Saddam's conservative wing of the Ba'ath party was backed by the CIA. They were enlisted to destroy the Iraqi popular revolution and slaughter every democratic, left-progressive individual they could get hold of, which indeed they did, including the progressive wing of the Ba'ath party itself---another fact that US media have let slide down the memory hole. Saddam was Washington's poster boy until the end of the Cold War.

So why has George II, like his daddy, targeted Iraq? When individuals keep providing new and different explanations to justify a particular action, they most likely are lying. So with political leaders and policymakers. Having seen that the pretexts given by the White House to justify war are palpably false, some people conclude that the administration is befuddled or even "crazy." But just because they are trying to mislead and confuse the public does not perforce mean they themselves are misled and confused. Rather it might be that they have reasons which they prefer not to see publicized and debated, for then it would become evident that US policies of the kind leveled against Iraq advance the interests of the rich and powerful at much cost to the American people and every other people on the face of the earth. Here I offer what I believe are the real reasons for the US aggression against Iraq.


WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:58:36 2003


Global Politico-Economic Supremacy

A central US goal, as enunciated by the little Dr. Strangeloves who inhabit the upper echelons of policymaking in the Bush administration, is to perpetuate US global supremacy. The objective is not just power for its own sake but power to insure plutocratic control of the planet, power to privatize and deregulate the economies of every nation in the world, to hoist upon the backs of peoples everywhere—including the people of North America ---the blessings of an untrammeled "free market" corporate capitalism. The struggle is between those who believe that the land, labor, capital, technology, and markets of the world should be dedicated to maximizing capital accumulation for the few, and those who believe that these things should be used for the communal benefit and socio-economic development of the many.

The goal is to insure not merely the supremacy of global capitalism as such, but the supremacy of US global capitalism by preventing the emergence of any other potentially competing superpower or, for that matter, any potentially competing regional power. Iraq is a case in point. Some nations in the Middle East have oil but no water; others have water but no oil. Iraq is the only one with plenty of both, along with a good agricultural base—although its fertile lands are now much contaminated by the depleted uranium dropped upon it during the 1991 Gulf War bombings.

In earlier times, Iraq's oil was completely owned by US, British, and other Western companies. In 1958 there was a popular revolution in Iraq. Ten years later, the rightwing of the Ba'ath party took power, with Saddam Hussein serving as point man for the CIA. His assignment was to undo the bourgeois-democratic revolution, as I have already noted. But instead of acting as a compradore collaborator to Western investors in the style of Nicaragua's Somoza, Chile's Pinochet, Peru's Fujimora, and numerous others, Saddam and his cohorts nationalized the Iraqi oil industry in 1972, ejected the Western profiteers, and pursued policies of public development and economic nationalism. By 1990, Iraq had the highest standard of living in the Middle East (which may not be saying all that much), and it was evident that the US had failed to rollback the gains of the 1958 revolution. But the awful destruction delivered upon Iraq both by the Gulf War and the subsequent decade of economic sanctions did achieve a kind of counterrevolutionary rollback from afar.

Soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union, US leaders decided that Third World development no longer needed to be tolerated. Just as Yugoslavia served as a "bad" example in Europe, so Iraq served as a bad example to other nations in the Middle East. The last thing the plutocrats in Washington want in that region is independent, self-defining developing nations that wish to control their own land, labor, and natural resources.


WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:57:12 2003


US economic and military power has been repeatedly used to suppress competing systems. Self-defining countries like Cuba, Iraq, and Yugoslavia are targeted. Consider Yugoslavia. It showed no desire to become part of the European Union and absolutely no interest in joining NATO. It had an economy that was relatively prosperous, with some 80 percent of it still publicly owned. The wars of secession and attrition waged against Yugoslavia---all in the name of human rights and democracy---destroyed that country's economic infrastructure and fractured it into a cluster of poor, powerless, right-wing mini-republics, whose economies are being privatized, deregulated, and opened to Western corporate penetration on terms that are completely favorable to the investors. We see this happening most recently in Serbia. Everything is being privatized at garage sale prices. Human service, jobs, and pension funds are disappearing. Unemployment, inflation, and poverty are skyrocketing, as is crime, homelessness, prostitution, and suicide. Welcome to Serbia's free market paradise.

Judging from what has been happening in Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Panama, Grenada, and elsewhere---we can anticipate that the same thing is in store for Iraq following a US occupation: An Iraqi puppet government will be put in place, headed by someone every bit as subservient to the White House as Tony Blair. The Iraqi state-owned media will become "free and independent" by being handed over to rich conservative private corporations. Anything even remotely critical of US foreign policy and free market capitalism will be deprived of an effective platform. Conservative political parties, heavily financed by US sources, will outspend any leftist groupings that might have survived. On this steeply unleveled playing field, US advisors will conduct US-style "democratic elections," perhaps replicating the admirable results produced in Florida and elsewhere. Just about everything in the Iraqi economy will be privatized at giveaway prices. Poverty and underemployment, already high, will climb precipitously. So will the Iraqi national debt, as international loans are floated that "help" the Iraqis pay for their own victimization. Public services will dwindle to nothing, and Iraq will suffer even more misery than it does today. We are being asked to believe that the Iraqi people are willing to endure another massive bombing campaign in order to reach this free-market paradise.


WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:56:52 2003


Natural Resource Grab

Another reason for targeting Iraq can be summed up in one word: oil. Along with maintaining the overall global system of expropriation, US leaders are interested in more immediate old-time colonial plunder. The present White House leadership is composed of oil men who are both sorely tempted and threatened by Iraq's oil reserve, one of the largest in the world. With 113 billion barrels at 5 a barrel, Iraq's supply comes to over .8 trillion dollars. But not a drop of it belongs to the US oil cartel; it is all state owned. Baghdad has offered exploratory concessions to France, China, Russia, Brazil, Italy, and Malaysia. But with a US takeover of Iraq and a new puppet regime in place, all these agreements may be subject to cancellation. We may soon witness the biggest oil grab in the history of Third World colonialism by US oil companies aided and abetted by the US government.

One thing that US leaders have been interested in doing with Iraqi oil---given the glut and slumping price of crude in recent years---is keep it off the market for awhile longer. As the London Financial Times (24 February 1998) reported, oil prices fell sharply because of the agreement between the United Nations and Iraq that would allow Baghdad to sell oil on the world market. The agreement "could lead to much larger volumes of Iraqi crude oil competing for market shares." The San Francisco Chronicle (22 February 1998) headlined its story "IRAQ'S OIL POSES THREAT TO THE WEST." In fact, Iraqi crude poses no threat to "the West" only to Western oil investors. If Iraq were able to reenter the international oil market, the Chronicle reported, "it would devalue British North Sea oil, undermine American oil production and---much more important---it would destroy the huge profits which the United States [read, US oil companies] stands to gain from its massive investment in Caucasian oil production, especially in Azerbajian." We might conclude that direct control and ownership of Iraqi oil is the surest way to keep it off the world market and the surest way to profit from its future sale when the price is right.


WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:55:26 2003


Domestic Political Gains

War and violence have been good to George W. Bush. As of September 10, 2001, his approval ratings were sagging woefully. Then came the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, swiftly followed by the newly trumpeted war against terrorism and the massive bombing and invasion of Afghanistan. Bush's approval ratings skyrocketed. But soon came the corporate scandals of 2002: Enron, WorldCom, and even more perilously Harken and Halliburton. By July, both the president and vice-president were implicated in fraudulent corporate accounting practices, making false claims of profit to pump up stock values, followed by heavy insider selling just before the stock was revealed to be nearly worthless and collapsed in price. By September, the impending war against Iraq blew this whole issue off the front pages and out of the evening news. Daddy Bush did the same thing in 1990, sending the savings and loan scandal into media limbo by waging war against that very same country.

By October 2002, the Republican party, reeling from the scandals and pegged as the party of corporate favoritism and corruption, reemerged as the party of patriotism, national defense, and strong military leadership to win control of both houses of Congress, winning elections it should never have won. Many Americans rallied around the flag, draped as it was around the president. Some of our compatriots, who are cynical and suspicious about politicians in everyday affairs, display an almost child-like unlimited trust and knee-jerk faith when these same politicians trumpet a need to defend our national security against some alien threat, real or imagined.

War also distracts the people from their economic problems, the need for decent housing, schools, and jobs, and a recession that shows no sign of easing. Since George II took office, the stock market has dropped 34 percent, unemployment has climbed 35 percent, the federal surplus of 81 billion is now a deficit of 57 billion, and an additional 1.5 million people are without health insurance, bringing the total to 41 million. War has been good for the conservative agenda in general, providing record military spending, greater profits for the defense industry, and a deficit spending spree that further enriches the creditor class at the taxpayer's expense, and is used to justify more cuts in domestic human services.

Liberal intellectuals are never happier than when, with patronizing smiles, they can dilate on the stupidity of George Bush. What I have tried to show is that Bush is neither retarded nor misdirected. Given his class perspective and interests, there are compelling reasons to commit armed aggression against Iraq---and against other countries to come. It is time we dwelled less upon his malapropisms and more on his rather effective deceptions and relentless viciousness. Many decent crusaders have been defeated because of their inability to fully comprehend the utter depravity of their enemies. The more we know what we are up against, the better we can fight it.
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:53:40 2003


Israeli army targets medical personnel for death 7 February 2003

Late Wednesday night, 5 February, an Israeli sniper killed two nurses, Abed al-Karim Anwar Labad, 21, and Omar Saad al-din Hussan, 21, while they were working at the al-Wafa Hospital in Gaza City.

The killings occurred when Israeli soldiers invaded the area, firing randomly from an Apache helicopter at civilian areas. Israeli forces then invaded a home situated next to the hospital, from where a sniper shot at the two nurses -- killing them both with a single bullet.

According to Dr Moawya Hassanen, head of the emergency unit at Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza, "The bullet hit Abed al-Karim in the chest, exited through his back, and entered Omar's chest. The killings took place while the nurses were performing their duties, fully clothed in medical uniforms."

Futhermore, the hospital was clearly identified as a medical center, with large flags and signs in both English and Arabic.
GO GET 'EM GEORGE!!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 16:18:34 2003


2/7/03 - Ramsey Clark's (LBJ's former US Attorney General) Letter to the United Nations

Dear Secretary General Annan,

Only firm opposition to war can serve and save the United Nations.

The peoples and nations of the world are looking to the United Nations to prevent the United States from waging a war of aggression against Iraq. This is the purpose for which the United Nations was created. To fail to firmly oppose military action against Iraq as a clear violation of the Charter of the United Nations and international law will propel the United Nations toward irrelevancy, or worse, apologist for an aggressor Superpower.

The great majority of the people and the nations of the United Nations oppose aggression against Iraq. By saying "no" to the scourge of war, the United Nations may save the United States from its own misguided leadership. It will at least save the moral stature of the United Nations.

If the United Nations yields its authority to United States aggression, it may never achieve independence to pursue its founding purpose, a world free of war and the domination of violent forces. Better to oppose U.S. aggression and struggle to preserve the principles and major participation of peoples and nations in its cause than yield to the coercive will of the Bush Administration. The balance of world political, social and moral power has shifted against further United States aggression. Through the courage now to say no to war, the United Nations will prevail.

Iraq Has Been The Victim Of U.S. Aggression For 12 Years.

Far from being a threat to the United States, or any other people, Iraq has been a victim of U.S. aggression for 12 years. Between January 16, 1991 and March 1, 1991 the U.S. acknowledges it dropped 88,500 tons of bombs the equivalent of 7 1/2 Hiroshima bombs, on a defenseless Iraq. The U.S. targeted and destroyed essential parts of the civilian life support system; water storage, pipe lines, pumping stations, filtration plants; food production, processing, storage and marketing; medical facilities services and supplies; transportation; communications; housing; schools; mosques, churches and synagogues.

Asked his assessment of Iraqi casualties in the U.S. assault in 1991 General Colin Powell then the highest ranking officer in the U.S. Armed Forces responded "It's really not a number I'm very interested in." Patrick Tyler, New York Times, March 23, 1991, p.A1.

The U.S. placed its casualties during its assault at 157. More than 1/3 were from friendly fire, the remainder from mechanical failures and accidents. Iraqi casualties were estimated repeatedly at 100,000 by General Norman Schwartzkopf during March 1991. The Wall Street Journal reported that General Schwartzkopf provided the Congress with a report estimating 100,000 Iraqi soldiers dead on March 20, 1991. The Defense Intelligence Agency on May 25, 1991 formally estimated 100,000 Iraqi casualties.

The London Times reported allied intelligence estimated as many as 200,000 Iraqi soldiers were killed. The Nouvelle Observateur reported French intelligence placed the Iraqi military death toll at 200,000. A former U.S. Secretary of the Navy estimated 200,000 Iraqi soldiers were killed.
LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF SANITY!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 15:28:47 2003


Tens of thousands of civilians died during the 42 days of constant bombing. These were 110,000 U.S. aerial sorties, averaging one every 30 seconds. Civilians were killed directly by the bombs and from accidents, lack of medicines to treat injuries and bad water resulting from the bombing. There was no public water system working within 24 hours of the first attacks. Thousands died from drinking contaminated water, often directly from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. 9,000 civilian homes were destroyed. Most hospitals were damaged.

More deadly than that bombing, twelve years of sanctions have inflicted death on over 1,500,000 people in Iraq, the majority children under 5 years old.

You must remember the enormity of this genocide as you consider whether to agree to another major U.S. military assault on Iraq. U.S. plans for intense bombardment of Iraq followed by land invasion discussed daily in the media would take thousands of Iraqi lives, however successfully executed. Violence that could radiate out from such a criminal assault may have catastrophic effect far more deadly and long lasting than the sanctions on Iraq.

The Only Rational Explanation For President Bush's Obsession With Attacking Iraq Is Oil And Related Geo-Political Power.

No rational analysis can support war against Iraq from fear it now has, or might later develop and use weapons of mass destruction. Iraq did not use such weapons when it was mercilessly bombed in 1991 though the U.S. falsely insists it used weapons of mass destruction "against its own people" during the Iran-Iraq war. See Stephen C. Pellstierre, N.Y. Times Op. Ed,, January 31, 2003, "Iraq was not to blame for the Halabja massacre." Iraq has not used weapons of mass destruction while enduring 12 years of sanctions.

U.N. Inspectors have searched Iraq over most of the past twelve years and found nothing. The U.N. Inspectors have reduced the risk that Iraq might develop, use, or provide others with weapons of mass destruction far below the risk of the more than forty nations known to possess, or considered to be seeking, such weapons. President Bush has threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iraq. Any realistic hope for the elimination and future prevention of weapons of mass destruction must began with nations known to possess them.

The certainty of violence in a war against Iraq and probability of prolonged and proliferating violence from it, far exceed any risk that Iraq might develop and use weapons of mass destruction, or commit acts of aggression.


LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF SANITY!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 15:27:51 2003


An Attack On Iraq Will Cause Terrorism, Not Prevent It.

The only rational explanation for a war on Iraq is an intention by the U.S. to control and exploit its oil, use oil sales to pay for the cost of the war and occupation, benefit U.S. oil companies and petroleum engineering firms with awards of contracts, control the price of oil to enrich the U.S. and enlarge U.S. geo-political power in the region.

Secretary Of State Powell's Presentation To The Security Council On February 5, 2003 Was A Rhetorical Exercise Without Credibility. "We're been looking at this for a year and we just don't think it's there." New York Times article on CIA and FBI summary of U.S. intelligence data of Iraqi efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction, February 3, 2003 p. A13.

President Bush and other high U.S. political officials have long stated they believe Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Their "belief" is not based on intelligence data. It is a falsehood designed to overcome resistance to the war they intend to wage.

Secretary Powell's charts, photos and electronic intercepts of conversations require authentication. They are repetitious of old tactics like the U.S. claim North Vietnamese torpedo boats attacked U.S. Navy ships in the Tonkin Gulf in 1964.Only later the U.S. admitted there were "no boats" there. Or the U.S. claim in early August 1990 that 250,000 Iraqi troops were poised to invade on Saudi Arabia's border, disproved by commercial satellite photos that showed no troops were there.

U.N. investigators have worked in Iraq for years. their knowledge of the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq exceeds the knowledge of Secretary Powell. Their investigations impede any development of, or plan to use such weapons. Secretary Powell's rhetoric encourages the acquisition of such weapons by small countries as essential to sovereignty, self defense and survival.

The investigative agencies of the United States government relied upon to determine whether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or has any links to Al Queda, do not believe such weapons, or efforts to develop them, exist.

And if everything Secretary Powell feared and professed to find was true, an attack on Iraq would still be unlawful. International law does not permit a war of aggression for non violent acts in the absence of an imminent threat of violence.

In Their Determination To Attack Iraq And Control Its Oil Resources U.S. Officials Will Say, And Too Often Do, Anything.

"All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested [by the U.S.] in many countries. And many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way. They are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies." President George W. Bush, State of the Union message, February 4, 2003, broadcast and published worldwide.

President Bush was speaking of summary executions, or pre-emptive murder in the language of a grade B Hollywood movie on organized crime. His doctrine of "pre-emptive" or "first strike" war makes war prevention impossible and international law meaningless. His doctrine has increased violence, or the threat of violence in occupied Palestine, between India and Pakistan, on the Korean peninsula and elsewhere. It promises the reign of violence and lawlessness.

The United Nations and each of its nations must say "No" to war.

Sincerely,

Ramsey Clark
LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF SANITY!!!!! <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 15:26:46 2003


ATTENTION!!: MUSHROOMS OF AIRSTRIP ONE!!! Your fate was decided decades ago!! Do you think so-called "leaders" like Bush or Blair would get anywhere near to the top if they weren't groomed by the "Power Elite" to follow instructions...

Remember JFK? he made the mistake of believing he actually WAS the President, and could stop the Vietname war, and preventing ISRAEL from getting the BOMB....and HE paid the appropriate price for his conceit.

Since then, our "leaders" have proved more amenable to the realities of "power" - i.e. they recognise they don't have any power... WE (the Power Elite, the Consortium, the Military Industrial Complex) have the POWER!!!

It was laid out to Johnson in 1966, and to every subsequent president.

"Lasting peace, while not theoretically impossibe, is probably unattainable; even if it could be achieved it would most certainly not be in the best interests of a stable society to achieve it.

"War fills certain functions essential to the stability of our society; until other ways of filling them are developed, the war system must be maintained - and improved in effectiveness. Allegiance to the State requires a cause - and a cause requires an enemy.

"War has provided both ancient and modern societies with a dependable system for stabilizing and controlling national economies. No alternate method of control has yet been tested in a complex modern economy that has shown itself remotely comparable in scope or effectiveness.

"War itself is the basic social system. It is the system which has governed most human societies of record, as it does today. War-readiness is the dominant force. It accounts for approximately a tenth of the World's total economy.

"The organization of a society for the possibility of war is its principal political stabilizer. The basic authority of a modern state over its people resides in its war powers...."


Sir Basil Zaharoff <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 14:56:16 2003


bbc is close but no ceegar. haliburton is an oil field service company. they sell services to oil companies just like schlumberger.
hikoo <hi@koo>
sayonara, .., Demfries, Tue Feb 11 14:55:33 2003
AMERICA ORDERS 100,000 BODY BAGS Feb 10 2003

By Stephen White and Paul Gilfeather

UP to 100,000 body bags and 6,000 coffins have been secretly delivered to a US base in Italy, a Catholic archbishop claimed yesterday.

Archbishop Renato Martino, president of the Pope's Council of Peace and Justice, said the consignment had arrived at the Sigonella base near Catania on the island of Sicily 10 days ago.

He said:

"Americans are expecting a high number of casualties.

That is why so many body bags and coffins have been sent to the base.

"I am very apprehensive about this.

War brings only destruction, misery and hate.

It doesn't resolve anything and is always like this.

"A true preventative action would be to try and avoid war.

The consequences of this war will make themselves all too obvious on the American people when they start to see coffins with loved ones in returning home."

Archbishop Martino added that he would be willing to travel to Washington and meet President Bush if the Pope asked him to be his special envoy.

The naval air station at Sigonella has been an American "hub" command centre since 1959.

More than 3,000 US marines and Navy personnel are stationed there.
#4 Horseman <>
Crosby-on-the-Euphrates, , , Tue Feb 11 14:17:12 2003


Dear Hikoo,

the articles you refer to were all plagiarised by our wagonman. The majority of the info comes from a Times article written by John Le Carré.

However, your comment about Haliborange was not entirely correct. If you are willinjg to regard the Beeb as a reliable source, go to:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2119129.stm

All in the interest of accuracy you understand. We crosbeians are sticklers for the stuff...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Feb 11 13:43:16 2003


Mister Wagon Machanic, {採用カタカナ表記(従来カタカナ表記)} 例:{エナジー(エネルギー)}、{アイオウ(イオ)} this is about as helpful as tirades by episode. and haliburton is not an oil company. what else is manufactured in that invective? and A27? if you want to knock american policy, do it without this overweening pebbledash and as though it was oyur responsibility to propose a better solution and run with it. if you think as in 'your' text that negotiations would have gotten anyplace, you are signallly unversed in the ways of saddam's world. have a nice day.
hikoo <hi@koo>
sayonara, .., Dumfries, Tue Feb 11 13:31:47 2003
My scroll wheel is protesteth...is the George door visible yet? I will call in when they stock Burbo Brew and wave at you Bill!
Babs <>
Southport, , , Tue Feb 11 08:12:43 2003
Jheezus. Another "cut and paste" merchant!!! Take any sentence from Wheelies' meandering, and feed it into any search engine...

Listen you effing halfwit, give us credit for being able to read and just place urls in future.

T****r...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Feb 11 02:25:19 2003


The 'Bush junta' belongs in a bad spy novel, says John Le Carré

America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember: worse than McCarthyism, worse than the Bay of Pigs, and in the long term potentially more disastrous than the Vietnam war.

The reaction to 9/11 is beyond anything Osama could have hoped for in his nastiest dreams. As in McCarthy times, the domestic rights and freedoms that have made America the envy of the world are being systematically eroded.

The hounding of non-national U.S. residents continues apace. "Non-permanent" males of North Korean and Middle Eastern descent are disappearing into secret imprisonment on secret charges on the secret word of judges. U.S.-resident Palestinians who were formerly ruled stateless, and therefore not deportable, are being handed over to Israel for "resettlement" in Gaza and the West Bank, places where they may never have set foot before.

Are we playing the same game here in Britain? I expect so. Another 30 years and we'll be allowed to know.

The combination of compliant U.S. media and vested corporate interests is once more ensuring that a debate that should be ringing out in every town square is confined to the loftier columns of the East Coast press: See page A27 if you can find and understand it.

IRAQ WAR PLANNED LONG AGO
No American administration has ever held its cards so close to its chest. If the intelligence services know nothing, that will be the best-kept secret of all. Remember that these are the same organizations who brought us the biggest failure in intelligence history: 9/11.

The imminent war was planned years before Osama bin Laden struck, but it was Osama who made it possible. Without Osama, the Bush junta would still be trying to explain such tricky matters as how it came to be elected in the first place; Enron; its shameless favoring of the already-too-rich; its reckless disregard for the world's poor and the ecology; and a raft of unilaterally abrogated international treaties. They might also have to be telling us why they support Israel in its continuing disregard for U.N. resolutions.

But Osama conveniently swept all that under the carpet. The U.S. defense budget has been raised by another 0 billion to around 60 billion. A splendid new generation of nuclear weapons is in the pipeline, tailored to respond equally to nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons in the hands of "rogue states." So we can all breathe easy.

And America is not only deciding unilaterally who may or may not possess these weapons. It also reserves to itself the unilateral right to deploy its own nuclear weapons without compunction whenever and wherever it considers its interests, friends, and allies threatened. Precisely who these friends and allies are going to be over the next years will, as ever in politics, be a bit of a conundrum. You make nice friends and allies, so you arm them to the teeth. Then one day they're not your friends and allies anymore, so you nuke them.

It is worth remembering here for just how many long hours, and how deeply, the U.S. cabinet weighed the option of nuking Afghanistan in the wake of 9/11. Happily for all of us, but for the Afghans in particular, whose complicity in 9/11 was much less than Pakistan's, they decided to make do with 25,000-ton "conventional" daisy-cutters, which by all accounts deliver as much clout as a small nuke anyway. But next time it'll be for real.

Quite what war Americans think they are supporting is a lot less clear. A war for how long, please? At what cost in American lives? At what cost to the American taxpayer's pocket? At what cost in Iraqi lives? It is probably by now a state secret, but Desert Storm cost Iraq at least twice as many lives as America lost in the entire Vietnam war.

How Bush and his junta succeeded in deflecting America's anger from Osama bin Laden to Saddam Hussein is one of the great public relations conjuring tricks of history. But they swung it.


The wheels start to fall off Bush's wagon... <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 00:18:59 2003


'RELIGIOUS CANT' APPALLING
The American public is not merely being misled. It is being threatened, bullied, browbeaten, and kept in a permanent state of ignorance and fear, with a consequent dependence upon its leadership. The carefully orchestrated neurosis should, with any luck, carry Bush and his fellow conspirators nicely into the next election.

Those who are not with Mr. Bush are against him. Worse--see his speech of Jan. 3--they are with the enemy. Which is odd, because I'm dead against Bush, but I would love to see Saddam's downfall--just not on Bush's terms and not by his methods. And not under the banner of such outrageous hypocrisy.

Old-style American colonialism is about to spread its iron wings over all of us. More Quiet Americans are slipping into unsuspecting townships than at the height of the Cold War.

The religious cant that will send American troops into battle is perhaps the most sickening aspect of this surreal war-to-be. Bush has an armlock on God.

And God has very particular political opinions....
God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America.

God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America's Middle Eastern policy, and anyone who wants to mess with that idea is: a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist.

God also has pretty scary connections. In America, where all men are equal in His sight, if not in one another's, the Bush family numbers one president, one ex-president, one ex-head of the CIA, the governor of Florida, and the ex-governor of Texas. Bush Senior has some good wars to his credit, and a well-earned reputation for visiting America's wrath on disobedient client states. One little war he hand-launched was against his own former CIA pal, Manuel Noriega of Panama, who served him well in the Cold War but got too big for his boots when it was over. Power doesn't come much more naked than that, and Americans know it.

CARE FOR A FEW POINTERS?
George W. Bush. 1978-84: senior executive, Arbusto Energy/Bush Exploration, an oil company. 1986-1990: on the board of the Harken oil company.

D**k Cheney. 1995-2000: chief executive of the Halliburton oil company.

Condoleezza Rice. 1991-2000: on the board of the Chevron oil company, which named an oil tanker after her.

And so on....

But none of these trifling associations affects the integrity of God's work. We're talking honest values here. And we know where your children go to school.


The wheels start to fall off Bush's wagon... <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 00:18:14 2003


It all comes back to Iraqi oil...
In 1993, while ex-President George Bush was paying a social visit to the ever-democratic Kingdom of Kuwait to receive their thanks for liberating them, somebody tried to kill him. The CIA believes that "somebody" was Saddam Hussein. Hence Bush Junior's cry: "That man tried to kill my Daddy." But it's still not personal, this war. It's still necessary. It's still God's work. It's still about bringing freedom and democracy to the poor, oppressed Iraqi people.

To be an acceptable member of the Bush team it seems you must also believe in Absolute Good and Absolute Evil, and Bush, with a lot of help from his friends, family, and God, is there to tell us which is which. I think I may be evil for writing this, but I'll have to check.

What Bush won't tell us is the truth about why we're going to war. What is at stake is not an Axis of Evil--but oil, money, and people's lives. Saddam's misfortune is to sit on the second-biggest oil field in the world. Iran, next door, is said to possess the world's largest repositories of natural gas. Bush wants both, and who helps him get them will receive a piece of the cake. And who doesn't, won't.

If Saddam didn't have the oil, he could torture and murder his citizens to his heart's content. Other leaders do it every day--think Saudi Arabia, think Pakistan, think Turkey, think Syria, think Egypt--but these are our friends and allies.

In reality, I suspect, Baghdad represents no clear and present danger to its neighbors, and none to America or Britain. Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, if he's still got them, will be peanuts by comparison with the stuff Israel or American could hurl at him at five minutes' notice. What is at stake is not an imminent military or terrorist threat, but the economic imperative of American growth.

What is at stake is America's need to demonstrate its over-arching military power to all of us--to Europe and Russia and China, and poor mad little North Korea, as well as the Middle East; to show who rules America at home, and who is to be ruled by America abroad.

The most charitable interpretation of Tony Blair's part in all this is that he believed that, by riding the tiger, he could steer it. He can't. Instead, he gave it a phony legitimacy, and a smooth voice. Now, I fear, the same tiger has him penned into a corner, and he can't get out. Ironically, George W. himself may be feeling a little bit the same way.

In One-Party Britain, Blair on a lousy turnout was elected supreme leader by about a quarter of the electorate. Given the same public apathy and the continued dismal showing by the opposition parties at the next election, Blair or his successor will achieve similar absolute power with an even smaller proportion of the vote. It is utterly laughable that, at a time when Blair has talked himself against the ropes, neither of Britain's opposition leaders can lay a glove on him.

But that's Britain's tragedy, as it is America's: As our governments spin, lie, and lose their credibility, and the supposed parliamentary alternatives to them merely jockey for their clothes, the electorate simply shrugs and looks the other way. Politicians can never believe how little they deceive us.


The wheels start to fall off Bush's wagon... <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 00:17:28 2003


Blair can still opt out of war....
So the point in Britain is not which political party will form a government after the looming shambles, but who will be in the driving seat.

Blair's best chance of personal survival must be that, at the 11th hour, world protest and an improbably emboldened U.N. will force Bush to put his gun back in his holster unfired. But what happens when the world's greatest cowboy rides back into town without a tyrant's head to wave at the boys?

Blair's worst chance is that, with or without the U.N., he will drag us into a war that, if the will to negotiate energetically had ever been there, could have been avoided; a war that has been no more democratically debated in Britain than it has in America or the U.N. By doing so, Blair will have helped provoke unforeseeable retaliation, great domestic unrest, and regional chaos in the Middle East. He will have set back our relations with Europe and the Middle East for decades to come. Welcome to the party of the Ethical Foreign Policy.

There is a middle way, but it's a tough one: Bush dives in without U.N. approval and Blair stays on the bank. Goodbye to the Special Relationship.

The stink of religious self-righteousness in the American air recalls the British Empire at its worst. Lord Curzon's cloak sits poorly on the shoulders of Washington's fashionably conservative columnists. I cringe even more when I hear my prime minister lend his head prefect's sophistries to this patently colonialist adventure. His very real anxieties about terror are shared by all sane men. What he can't explain is how he reconciles a global assault on al-Qaida with a territorial assault on Iraq.

We are in this war, if it takes place, in order to secure the fig leaf of our special relationship with America, to grab our share of the oil pot, and because, after all the public hand-holding in Washington and Camp David, Blair has to show up at the altar.


The wheels start to fall off Bush's wagon... <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 00:16:27 2003


"But will we win, Daddy?"

"Of course, child. It will all be over while you're still in bed."

"Why?"

"Because otherwise Mr. Bush's voters will get terribly impatient and may decide not to vote for him after all."

"But will people be killed, Daddy?"

"Nobody you know, darling. Just foreign people."

"Can I watch it on television?"

"Only if Mr. Bush says you can."

"And afterwards, will everything be normal again? Nobody will do anything horrid any more?"

"Hush, child, and go to sleep."

Last Friday an American friend of mine in California drove to his local supermarket with a sticker on his car saying "Peace is also Patriotic." It was gone by the time he'd finished his shopping.

© David Cornwell 2003

JOHN LE CARRÉ is a British spy novelist. This commentary is an expanded version of a contribution to the openDemocracy global debate on the Iraq crisis published on www.openDemocracy.net
The wheels start to fall off Bush's wagon... <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 00:13:58 2003


jj, it's ever so cold in the lounge, dear, so do use the hearth for your feet. I know what I wanted to ask you - will trifle do for the sweet? Milk first, and just as it comes, dear? I'm afraid the preserve's full of stones. Beg your pardon, I've spoiled the doileys with afternoon tea cakes and scones. There's something about Getye that distinguishes him from his Dad. You can tell from his tie and blazer he's just a varsity grad. You always know when he's been up to a bit of a lark with his tin whistle and too much Tetley's after dark. He always gives his Ovaltine a second stir as he nibbles away at a petit beurre. And having satisfied his bodily wants, he then settles down to his P.C's fonts. Just what has my ducky chicky, tiny tot, done? All he wants is to rumble in the desert sun. Do have another slice, dear, look at those scrumptious layers. You know every night Getye still says his prayers. Gracious Lord, Bomb Irak but spare their women for my sake. If that is not too easy, I will pardon Thy mistake. But gracious Lord, whatever shall be, don't let anyone bomb me. Oh, and Gracious Lord your own son was in Palestine and I still remember Him these days in bread and wine. And who's side would you be on, jj, dear?
Agatha <>
, , , Tue Feb 11 00:04:31 2003
Still not quite sure why we have to decide, Greg. " What would you prefer, Mr. C., death by hanging or death by electrocution?"

"Well, as it 'appens, I don't fancy either! I'm rubber-ducked if I'm gonna back either George Dubyah or some towel-head. After all, if the "allies" succeed in creating a democracy of Iraq, as they have promised, it'll be the only one in the contiguous million square miles!"
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Feb 10 21:29:09 2003


Time to choose.....

McWorld v Jihad.....

Whose side are we really on??
Greg Stillson <>
, , , Mon Feb 10 21:11:30 2003


Tickety boo diddle ooo bob bob bob tucka wuk mingle popsy blah blah blah nwest falamwalamshalamgalambalam la hup tink woin fras gho sadj munbee hiffle scop duntle mick.
shlonkydipskyne <>
, , mwallalalalalalal, Mon Feb 10 20:04:24 2003
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar.
Vive les Frogs!!! <>
, , , Mon Feb 10 19:55:14 2003
"Now there's a likely lad! I wuz at their 'ouse and told 'is mum at the time, 'Well, 'e'll go far that lad 'o yors, Agatha yer know. Far.' I sed. An' 'e did. All that rime and rythm and little wrinkles almost there. I'd dropped in fer the sweep money. Funny thing was I'd on'y gone out for a loaf in the first place. An' 'e was a protestant too. But very nice. Never unnerstood 'ow yer could have 'protestant faith' though. A mean, faith's the last thing a protestant'd be lookin' for innit? A bit shorter at the sides please luv. Yes, it was nice earlier this mornin'. Satties has got an offer on yer know. Saw it comin' over. D'int like that about blarney an' lies though, a mean blarney's blarney an' lies's lies innit? An' what side's 'e on anyway?"
jj <jj>
jj, .., Vendles, Mon Feb 10 19:38:51 2003
A bit "off-topic", but can anyone tell me what's happened to the Crosby Cam? It's been off-line for a few days now, and I miss looking at the door of The George...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Feb 10 19:38:04 2003
There are one or two things I would like to hint, since I don't often get a chance to put them in print. There are truths Europeans need to be told. It does them no good to dither and scold. Frogs and Krauts look over the Atlantic in anger. At American ways and American power. Scorn i.dollar-try is what Nato should not do. Especially when they depend on Washington as much as they do. There are truths the British need to be told. Follow their leader and into slavery they'll be sold. they ought to be free as Burbo wind and the waves. Instead they've acquired the manner of plantation slaves. Tinkering with and tailoring every U.N. motion. To what will be thought of it across the ocean. Their leadership and wimpy statemanship tries and tries. And mumbles and fumbles the same blarney and lies. There are truths the Americans need to be told. It's just madness to swagger and act bold. Their goddess of freedom is a big mademoiselle. Whose come hither looks might tempt them into hell. Her torch is held high and they think they are free. But they've confused being free with free and easy. Their Texan stands tall and with military bearing. But can they trip their concrete jungles without fearing? They should forget Iraq before they've got nothing to show. Except a pair of horns and the tail they are beginning to grow.
J.Getjeman <>
, , , Mon Feb 10 17:38:44 2003
ATTENTION! AUDITIONS! Liverpool Musical Society Proudly presents THE DEMON HEADMASTER - The Musical AUDITIONS FOR ALL MAJOR CHARACTERS & ENSEMBLE SUNDAY 16th FEBRUARY, 2003 BANK FIELD HOUSE BANKS ROAD GARSTON CHILDREN aged between 5 & 17 (10am - 1pm) ADULTS 18+ (1.30pm - 4pm) YOU WILL BE ASKED TO SING... AND YOU WILL BE TOLD AT THE AUDITION WHETHER YOU HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL OR NOT... SO BE PREPARED!!! TO BE PERFORMED @ THE NEPTUNE THEATRE LIVERPOOL SEPTEMBER 2003 FURTHER INFO: ANTONY MARTIN ( DIRECTOR) hannibalah@hotmail.com (0151) 2864369 HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE! HAPPINESS ALWAYS Antony Martin
Antony Martin <hannibalah@hotmail.com>
Crosby, Liverpool, Uk, Mon Feb 10 16:48:49 2003
unlikely but both pillars of humour. one english sardonic. one ny rye. nouvelle and vague? offer them a drink. always liked armentieres girls. apres lardner ski school.
hotrock <hitrock@frog.com>
crosby, .., eng, Mon Feb 10 14:58:40 2003
Right. Russia, France, Germany...outside the school gates Now! Youse gonna get your a*s kicked.
George W <>
and his oil thugs, Ignorantville, , Mon Feb 10 13:49:39 2003
C.B-S: O.K. if you insist. I must have. Once upon a time. Hotrock: Ozzy and the Algonks. An unlikely combo.
spotter <>
, , , Sun Feb 9 23:31:17 2003
spotter. 500 years of humourous prose page 379 by frank muir, oxford book of. well anotatated review of english humour in all regions for the last half milennium. good old ozzy and algonquin round table.
hotrock <hitrock@frog.com>
crosby, .., eng, Sun Feb 9 20:04:40 2003
Spotter old bean,

If you've been in, you've deffinitely been face to face! c b-s
Chames Bond-Smythe <>
Blundlesahhnds, , , Sun Feb 9 15:14:31 2003


No No No - some one said I was mad once, cross mae-be but not mad, this is pure madness - Royal blue trout??
Mae <>
, , , Sat Feb 8 17:35:27 2003
Laughable, spotter? Disposable, non-recyclable, more like. Wheel in the wheelie bins down Anfield Road.
Seeing Red <annefield@lobbyist.com>
, , , Sat Feb 8 15:28:54 2003
Frank Muir: My word! Not too long to wait now, hotrock. No moon, March 3rd. C.B-S: Although I've been on, in, over, under, and across the Mersey, I have yet to come face to face with the 'ever present Garston trout' unless that is an a.k.a. for the sandbanks that appear when the tide ebbs out of the river, especially near Garston, Eastham, and towards the Runcorn area. Since your posting I have been googlably informed that down under, in N.Z., the Mataura River is famous for its Garston trout, but I doubt that this is what you refer to. Perhaps, after the Palace affair in today's muddled Boro', you are thinking, with poetic licence, justification and linguistic compression, of Liverpool F.C's expensive collection of international starlets and strikers on strike who, unlike William of Wiarton and Punx Phil, seem hell-bent on chasing their own shadows and making life difficult for themselves and their laughable French boss, as they flotsam and jetsam along like t***s on the Mersey tide. If so, it has to be said our Mersey is no longer as polluted as expats remember or some locals still suggest. The water in the Queens Channel, just off Seaforth, is said to be turning blue, although not yet to a full royal Moyesy blue, while salmon, John West & Co. take note, have recently been seen leaping up river. http://www.guardian.co.uk/fish/story/0,7369,845150,00.html And once again, night lines put out at Hall Road lugbed and breakfast, are finding cod galore on their hooks. Anglers fishing the large tides are not and prefer to cast long into the gullies on low tide to improve their cod-caught ratios.
spotter <>
, , , Sat Feb 8 14:52:50 2003
whats a comallyer. frank muir says a billabong word for a ballad that starts come all ye. and a garston trout. spotter. nice to see that poetic plain again. will we wait long before somebody in the sand asks us to look upon his works and despair. good old ozzy.
hotrock <hitrock@frog.com>
crosby, .., the island, Fri Feb 7 22:12:17 2003
Dear Alk, Welcome to gaff if same can be found inasfar as I don't know what a gaff is. Please bring with on trip following hard to gets: bathroom soap; NYT crossword book (Sunday version by preference); shaving soap; Coco Cola, any size; several litres of (good 91 oct petrol) as the wait is now anywhere from 3 hours to 3 days and no guarantees (petrol left at rest separates into two layers), with vehicles failing becaus of bad product; own flak jacket and gas mask; digital camera (for selling snaps of otherwise unbeleived outrages to papers on return home) and your own favourite protest-model pot or pan and percussion device therewith for the use of. And sunblock.

Dear Spotter, Cryptic stuff with eruditial trimmings and all. I was taken by 'darkling', always having wondered what Matthew was on about, not unlike George's excoursion 'she walks in beauty as the night' which also says something essential that I agree with and can thrill to but if challenged to explain, could not. Your choice of line there too has a ring of poetic irony in today's world, 'ignorant armies sent to clash in the desert night'. How apropos can you get? The line transmits an impression, an idea that, were one to ask the army, in small words, what they do, they'd say "We clash. It's our job. Mostly in the dark," and of course, dark has descended when we're down to folk sending armies and the social and political scene is bereft of hope, a desert, as it were. I know zip about Matthew Arnold but by jingo, he seems to have hitten a few nails on the head there.

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, jj, Vendle-i, Fri Feb 7 21:58:55 2003


Spotter old Chap,

No mention of the ever present "Garston trout", were you ever on the Mersey? c b-s
Charlie Butterworth-Smythe <pristinebeach@Blundlesahhnds>
, Blundlesahhnds, , Fri Feb 7 14:44:38 2003


Hotrock : it's not Dover yet the Mersey is calm tonight, the tide is full, and the moon lies glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay... into the mind is brought a turbid ebb and flow... and with its sound a thought...we are here as on a darkling plain .... alarmed by the struggle and sight.... of ignorant armies sent to clash in the desert night.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
some distance from, Matt's Dover Beach, , Thu Feb 6 23:38:02 2003
spotter. nice but rock no. better beach. darkling and matt with spring busting out all dover.
hotrock <hitrock@frog.com>
crosby, .., eng, Thu Feb 6 22:33:26 2003
Hotrock, Sigmund would relate to that, looking into the flashes before that inward eye which is the bliss of solitude. In the days before group analysis of course. You, as @ frog.com I would have thought preferred the wild joy of living, the leaping from (hot)rock to (hit)rock, and the cool silver shock of the plunge into Jung's pool of life.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Thu Feb 6 19:13:22 2003
There was a young woman from Crosby, who wasn't all that she was be, one day she did clout a man who was stout, and ended up eating devilish cabbage.
Mae <>
, , , Thu Feb 6 18:51:23 2003
right on spotter but i prefer the bit with so oft when on my couch i lie in vacant or in pensive mood

best
hotrock <hitrock@frog.com>
crosby, .., eng, Thu Feb 6 15:27:41 2003


Mae, get ready to cast a clout. William of Wiarton is not in need of glasses after all and Punx.Phil was just afraid of his own shadow. Lonely joggers wanderering and floating through Sefton Park have seen not only a crowd of disgruntled Kopites but also a host of golden daffodils fluttering and dancing in the morning breeze. Any sane poet could not but be gay in such jocund company......my heart with pleasure fills and dances with the daffodils....... spring IS just around the corner.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Thu Feb 6 15:04:52 2003
I fancy a holiday, think I might pop over to Caracas JJ and stay in your gaff. Free accomodation and food sounds good to me. We can talk about the CC and the good ol' days! Oh yeah, and for anyone wondering what happened to Don Corleone, lets just he's had to change his identity - mafia problems an' all...
Alakazar <>
, Utrecht, Die Netherlands, Thu Feb 6 11:04:08 2003
Ha ha. You cant even say c**t. That's so gay.
Ortis <>
, , , Thu Feb 6 00:47:34 2003
Haven't signed on in a while. Crosby Channel's still full of c***s.
Ortis <>
, , , Thu Feb 6 00:47:02 2003
May be we could all meet at the five-lamps, at midnight when the May blossoms or may be not. I want to be a poet! Dont you you know it?
Mae <mae@dontgiveashit.com>
, , In the garden, Wed Feb 5 19:10:17 2003
I once saw a TV thing on submarines in the war and, during an interview of an ex-U-boat captain, explaining the feeling of being depth charged during those dreadful hours of cat and mouse with British corvettes, he was telling of the way the explosions would rock the vessel and how their shockwaves hit its structure. At one point, however, after mentioning the attacker's need to get the charges to go off just below the sub, breaking its back to guarantee destruction, he also mentioned, totally unexpectedly, that men were on their knees, praying. "I don't believe this tripe about no God and fancy positions; get that man in a sub under attack, and, I can tell you, him and all like him are on their knees praying to their God". He then went back to the technicalities of getting the chop or not, in the cold waters of the North Atlantic. I think he knows more about it than the guy who adopts the 'no god' position as a guiding principle, thereby turning the principle into his god anyway. And a pretty cold one at that. Not much good at 20 fathoms.

And Five Lampery reburgeons onto the scene! Ah! For those days of your! -- yer wha'? -- ....when Ramses walked the Brighton le Sands and Sniggery was home to a devilish cabbage plot, repulsing German invaders driving late model Volkswagens with cries of ............... (fill in your fave here)

Oh to be in Crosby now that Caracas is sinking into the quickmire of ideological duplicity writ large and deviously. And Spring is around the corner, just beyond the Northern Road Heliport. You're right Andy, a bit of decent incongruentiality, unvarnishedly irreverenced through the South Road lights, accelerating through 3,500 revs and into third, ballraces ascream, toward the timelessly unpredictable Five Lamps, always ready to keep us guessing. Ah! The fresh air of it! Ah!

Ah!

Dear Spotter, Great to see your humouric sensibilty there with the Under'water' 'earth'quake activity, 'around' our sacredized Bank! And yourdevice of the typhoon rattling Typhoo(n) teacups is righta uppa my strada altogether. You can't keep a good man down! On my next time over, we could all get toegther one evening with those seismologists! And a coffee maybe. I'll bring the real McCoy with along. Like.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
jj, .., <>, Wed Feb 5 18:22:23 2003


Mae: If you wait until I be out, you'll wake up either mad or a poet.
Hawthorne Bush <hedged@washington.net>
, , , Wed Feb 5 18:22:18 2003
A typhoon over the Irish Sea caused windows and kitchen china to rattle in Crosby yesterday afternoon and no cod to be had at Hall Road. Seismologists, however, have reported no underwater earthquake activity around the Great Burbo Bank.
spotter <stevenpotter@freudian.com>
, , , Wed Feb 5 17:50:37 2003
A man without religion is often said to be a man without peace, but that man who has no religion, truly is the one at peace; with the world and with himself.
Al <getmypoint@akazar.com>
, , , Wed Feb 5 10:56:26 2003
off piste is right, or piste off. plenty of both. unbecoming. 5 lamps begorrah.
hotrock <hit@rock>
crosby, .., <>, Wed Feb 5 02:09:25 2003
As messages have tended to be a little 'off piste' of late, I thought I'd just remind you that The Five Lamps continue to shine brightly day in day out. Even occasionally at night too.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Noo Burbo Boot Camp, , , Tue Feb 4 20:16:03 2003
PLEASE FOR THOSE OF YOU THERE IN NIGERIA I HAVE REACH THISE SIDE.MUGU
OBINNA <MUGU@MUGU.COM>
BALOGUN, LAGOS, NIGERIA, Tue Feb 4 11:44:27 2003
P-phil, you can read about your South American cousins at www.moggies.co.uk/wybi/degus_dumped.html
Connie Chinchilla <.>
, , , Tue Feb 4 00:16:59 2003
Anyway, getting back to the charms Bavarian slice and the route of the L3 is good.
JG <>
, , , Mon Feb 3 23:16:01 2003
Anyway, getting back to the charms Bavarian slice and the route of the L3 is good.
JG <>
, , , Mon Feb 3 23:15:17 2003
Dont any of you cast clout!
Mae <mae.blossom@whogivesshit.com>
, , Watching the flowers, Mon Feb 3 19:53:14 2003
C-B-S and King Phil: It is difficult enough having to prognosticate in both French and English to this lot up here but it becomes a legal liability when people just fail to understand the significance of Me and My Shadow, when walking down still icy avenues. If and when I see my shadow, my genes tell me there is still plenty of winter to come, at least 6 weeks more of it; it is when I don't see my shadow that spring is just around the corner and ready to burst out all over. Since I have been sued in the past for having lulled the population, into an unattainable joy of spring in the shortest time, it is probably unwise for me to make any additional comment, so please feel free to interpret my shadow, or the absence of it, as you deem fit. My revered predecesor never had any of these legal problems. If they hadn't cremated him he'd be turning in his watery grave at the very thought of it.
William II <wiarton@thebar.com>
, , , Mon Feb 3 04:54:46 2003
Unlike that upstart pretender to the late William of Wiarton's franchise, that albino rodent rookie whose own wee willie has now apparently been circumcised, ( or even worse), following his mistaken forecast of last year, I, Punxsutawney Phil, of Gobbler's K**b, Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania,undisputed King of the Groundhogs, Seer of the Seers, often imitated but never equalled, made my own prognostication yesterday to a very mournful throng, some several thousand strong. As I looked about me, I did indeed see my shadow beside me: SO SIX MORE WEEKS OF WINTER THERE WILL BE. Did any of my South American cousins, the Degus, who were abandoned on your shores this time last year, survive to predict the end of winter and the early arrival of a tropical heatwave for you folks on Moyesyside?
Punxsutawney Phil <P-phil@oldoakstump.met>
, , , Mon Feb 3 04:00:38 2003
Just in!!

Another Zionist plot - The hairy rat of Colpoys Bay, Wiarton Williestein has just predicted an earl end to winter. Not having seen his shadow it is fortold that spring can only be six weeks away.

c.b-s
Cuthbert Benjemin-Smythe <>
Blundlesahhnds, , , Mon Feb 3 01:50:26 2003


For decades Israel has violated well established precepts of international law and defied numerous United Nations resolutions in its occupation of conquered lands, in extra-judicial killings, and in its repeated acts of military aggression.

Most of the world regards Israel's policies, and especially its oppression of Palestinians, as outrageous and criminal. This international consensus is reflected, for example, in numerous UN resolutions condemning Israel, which have been approved with overwhelming majorities.

"The whole world," United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan recently said, "is demanding that Israel withdraw from occupied Palestinian territories. I don't think the whole world ... can be wrong." [April 19, 2002]

Only in the United States do politicians and the media still fervently support Israel and its policies. For decades the US has provided Israel with crucial military, diplomatic and financial backing, including more than billion each year in aid.

Why is the U.S. the only remaining bastion of support for Israel?

Bishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa, who was awarded the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize, has candidly identified the reason: "The Israeli government is placed on a pedestal in the US, and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic," he said. "People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful -- very powerful." - The Guardian, April 29, 2002.
Stop This Evil War!!! <>
, , , Mon Feb 3 00:46:20 2003


Slatterwaites and such have a lot to answer for, would never buy my knickers from them.
Jeanette <>
Oxford, , , Sat Feb 1 18:40:13 2003
You're right, Jeanette. If you'd have met someone my size in a lift, we wouldn't have both fitted in, and you couldn't have commented on whether I was nice or not. Perhaps if I had a svelt figure like Mr Mandela my destiny could have been to lead my people in an ultimately democratic campaign to freedom. Alas, too many Crosby scones in my youth............
Bryan <BigBry>
Waterloo, , UK, Sat Feb 1 17:57:24 2003
Neslon Madela is very nice, met him in a lift once. So go pick on someone your own size.
Jeanette <>
Oxford, , , Sat Feb 1 17:11:24 2003
Bin Laden brings down the SPACE SHUTTLE!!!!! So much for the first Israeli in Space. Ha!!

Bush and Blair's attack on Iraq will now turn into the "Bay of Camels"......
As ye sow, so shall you reap.... <>
, , , Sat Feb 1 14:41:27 2003


Escapism ~ more Burbochat please.......
Babs <head@sand.com>
Ostrichport, , , Sat Feb 1 10:31:38 2003
Phew!! That is a relief. Margaret, why did you post anonymously before? Your identity explains your views. You'll be telling us you've been barred from SMOB next.....
Sean Golding <Blues>
Seaforth, , UK, Sat Feb 1 10:28:55 2003
ISRAEL TO KILL IN U.S. & ALLIED NATIONS
By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
From the Washington Politics & Policy Desk
Published 1/15/2003

Israel is embarking upon a more aggressive approach to the war on terror that will TARGETED KILLINGS IN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER FRIENDLY COUNTRIES, former Israeli intelligence officials told United Press International.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has forbidden the practice until now, these sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The Israeli statements were confirmed by more than a half dozen former and currently serving U.S. foreign policy and intelligence officials in interviews with United Press International.

With the appointment of Meir Dagan, the new director of Israel's Mossad secret intelligence service, Sharon is preparing "a huge budget" increase for the spy agency, one Israeli official said.

Another former Israeli government official said that under Sharon, "diplomatic constraints have prevented the Mossad from carrying out 'preventive operations' (targeted killings) on the soil of friendly countries until now."

He said Sharon is "reversing that policy, even if it risks complications to Israel's bilateral relations."

A former Israeli military intelligence source agreed: "What Sharon wants is a much more extensive and tough approach to global terrorism, and this includes greater operational maneuverability."

Does this mean ASSASSINATIONS ON THE SOIL OF ALLIES?

"It does," he said.


A TERRORIST IS A TERRORIST IS A TERRORIST.... <Margaret Thatcher>
, , , Sat Feb 1 02:22:15 2003


An FBI spokesman declined to comment, saying: "This is a policy matter. We only enforce federal laws."

A congressional staff member with deep knowledge of intelligence matters said, "I don't know on what basis we would be able to protest Israel's actions." He referred to the recent killing of Qaed Salim Sinan al Harethi, a top al Qaida leader, in Yemen by a remotely controlled CIA drone.

"That was done on the soil of a friendly ally," the staffer said.

But the complications posed by Israel's new policy are real.

"Israel does not have a good record at doing this sort of thing," said former CIA counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson.

Gerald Bull, an Ontario-born U.S. citizen and designer of the Iraqi supergun -- a massive artillery system capable of launching satellites into orbit, and of delivering nuclear chemical or biological payloads from Baghdad to Israel -- was killed in Belgium in March 1990. The killing is still unsolved, but former CIA officials said a Mossad hit team is the most likely suspect.

Bull worked on the supergun design -- codenamed Project Babylon -- for 10 years, and helped the Iraqis develop many smaller artillery systems. He was found with five bullets in his head outside his Brussels apartment.

This Israeli government source explained that in the past Israel has not staged targeted killings in friendly countries because "no one wanted such operations on their territory."

This has become irrelevant, he said.

Dagan, the new hard-driving director of Mossad, will implement the new changes, former Israeli government officials said.

Former Israel Defense Forces Lt. Col. Gal Luft, who served under Dagan, described him as an "extremely creative individual creative to the point of recklessness."

A former CIA official who knows Dagan said the new Mossad director knows and has a "real killer instinct."


A TERRORIST IS A TERRORIST IS A TERRORIST.... <Margaret Thatcher>
, , , Sat Feb 1 02:19:59 2003


Well, someone is seeking mileage by reporting comments and attributing them, no doubt correctly, to Nelson Mandela. If the comments were from someone else, they wouldn't carry the same weight. There is a glaring incongruity, however, in looking for impact by reporting a heavyweight's words, all anonymously. Gee, matey! It seems that your whole point here is that the weight of statements depends on who's standing behind them. So why the anonymity? I'd mention that the anonymous quoting approach gives the impression that you haven't found what you believe in and so are casting about just for third party stuff to match your mood of the moment and I don't think that was the impression you sought to make. Why not rethink the stuff and post again, without leaving out the protagonist of all this by the way, Saddam, whose publicity agent has complained that his client isn't getting half the mentions he deserves. "Must I ask him to gas another few thousand Kurds?" he asks and I don't know whether to tell give to go with it or wait a bit longer.

Yes, Nelson was a terrorist and paid a 27-year price finding stuff out and then practising it energetically, despite his advancement in years and that's what he's famous for. Not the bit before. In contrast, the famous Jackal is in jail in Paris and writes a regular column in a paper here in Caracas, believe it or not. Seemingly, he isn't interested in the fruitful and benficial road taken by Nelson but rather in enhancing his praise for the 9/11 terrorists. So he won't get to be be famous for the same thing that Nelson is.

I wonder too why someone who thinks that an anonymous 'tadpole' said nothing, feels he needs to tell everyone, anonymously, and then also say nothing. That's laying something on thick, isn't it?

But I must say. "Phew!" to the written confirmation that the world is nigh. I have long been convinced I was standing on it.

And for those who feel 'jj' isn't enough when writing of anonymity, I am John Kelly at +58 212 979 4391, in Caracas and we are four hours behind Brooke Winter Time, Hereinafter, "BWT". Ciaou Guys an' Dolls!

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
Caracas, .., Vendles, Sat Feb 1 00:24:02 2003


Don't you find CAPITAL letters really useful when you're trying to make a point? Doesn't matter how stupid the point is, in CAPITALS it looks important and you feel as if you're important too. Nelson Mandela said yesterday, "I love CAPITALS. Please quote me in them but try not to get big words like SEDUCTION and DESTRUCTION mixed up because people will just think you're sad."
Jon H <jh>
Waterloo, , UK, Sat Feb 1 00:12:50 2003
nuclear world war thank fuckk i hope so.
thank fuckkk the world is nigh <>
, , hell, Fri Jan 31 21:38:27 2003
Oh Dear, another tadpole opens its little mouth - and says NOTHING.....
Try to think outside of the JamJar... <>
, , , Fri Jan 31 21:05:46 2003
People don't like to mention it, but Mandela was, for better or worse, a terrorist.
. <>
, , , Fri Jan 31 18:38:03 2003
FURIOUS Nelson Mandela yesterday charged President Bush with risking a holocaust for the sake of Iraqi oil.

Mr Mandela declared: "It is a tragedy what Bush is doing in Iraq. All he wants is Iraqi oil. We must expose this as much as possible. He is making the greatest mistake of his life by trying to cause carnage."

He was equally damning about Tony Blair, sneering: "He is the foreign minister of the United States. He is no longer Prime Minister of Britain."

Mr Mandela's astonishing attack stung the Bush administration and Downing Street. Mr Mandela has repeatedly slammed Bush's stance over Iraq - but never in such harsh terms.

He told a conference in Johannesburg: "What I am condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight and who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust."

"Why does the US behave so arrogantly? THEIR FRIEND ISRAEL HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. But because it's their ally they won't ask the UN to get rid of them."

He said: "Both Bush and Tony Blair are undermining an idea (the UN) sponsored by their predecessors."

Mr Mandela said he would support without reservation any action against Iraq agreed by the UN. But action without that support was unacceptable and set a bad precedent.

The world STATESMAN went on to launch a withering attack on America's human rights record.

Referring to the US wartime atom bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagaski, he said: "Because they decided to kill innocent people in Japan, who are they now to pretend they're the policeman of the world?

"lf there is a country which has committed unspeakable atrocities, it is the US...they don't care for human beings."


THE TRUTH THAT SHALL NOT DIE <>
Somnolent Tadpoles of Crosby, , , Fri Jan 31 14:41:12 2003


JJ ~ never mind your feet ~ you can order most online now. Likewise Jeanette ~ kitchens and pregnancy ~ bin there dun that. Microwave meals are ace! (sh.....don't mention the war....sh...)
Babs <>
Southport, , , Fri Jan 31 07:52:57 2003
I have just learned that an Israeli conglomerate has acquired control of the MICHELIN Tire Company. The announcement states that they plan to change the name to the MOISHELIN Tire Company. It is expected that FIRESTONE will follow suit and will re-name their tyres... FIRESTEINS. The FIRESTEIN advertising will include the jingle " Not only will our tyres stop on a dime, they'll even pick it up ".................(we spell 'em tires here)
ffrankenstein <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
Tyred Tested and true, , C A N A D A, Fri Jan 31 02:10:57 2003
Dear Bill, Thanks and all. Have onpassed same, though Ana Maria was looking for authentic 'as granny cooked/baked' stuff. She should be kitchen unchallenged, living in San Francisco with a cooking positive hubule to boot.

Dear Jeanette, My feet won't take me as far as Tesco or Mark & Sparks these days. They are very good feet and not short on 'cute' in their '40s kinda way but I always keep them in my house, for immediate use as needed, as it were. Our nearest Tesco is about 8000 kilometres, give or take and depending if you get the gate near the door or have to walk further. The same would apply to the M&S option. If, though, you ever find yourself on an aeroplane headed for South America and wonder whether you might know someone down there, I'm your man! I could be waiting for y'all, on arrival and do the market and on the way up from the Caribbean to Caracas. As things stand in Caracas just now, however, even the government's local embassy has advised all Brit nationals to leave the country. It'll be getting in touch with Liverpudlians next, no doubt!

Any blancmange, trifle and scOne reesype stuff still welcome!

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, Vendles, Thu Jan 30 22:43:58 2003


Hi John, there are two great websites providing recipes for virtually any food you could imagine (except, strangely enough, scouse)

They are

www.recipeweb.co.uk

www.recipesource>com

The latter is my favourite, but is a pain in the botox because nearly all the weights and measures are in cups and sticks(!), but I'm sure that if your daughter has a well equipped kitchen, she'll have the necessary implements.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Jan 30 21:27:03 2003


Have you tried Marks and Sparks/Tesco for scones? No recipes here sorry, not been barefoot or pregnant or in kitchen for years now.
Jeanette <>
, Oxford, , Thu Jan 30 19:15:43 2003
i don finish here thanks
mugu <mugu@guyman.com>
, , , Thu Jan 30 16:28:35 2003
jj, order your jams, marmalades and lemon curds from where the citizens of Burbo get them: www.thebaytree.co.uk/
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Jammy Dodger, , , Thu Jan 30 16:28:01 2003
Gerry, Leave Everton alone they have enough problems. At least you never mentioned the might Red. If you did, So nob head on here would start going on about a communist plot which made his wife leave him.
Bryan Milne <Big Bry>
Waterloo, , , Thu Jan 30 12:33:55 2003
Gerry, Leave Everton alone they have enough problems. At least you never mentioned the might Red. If you did, So nob head on here would start going on about a communist plot which made his wife leave him.
Bryan Milne <Big Bry>
Waterloo, , , Thu Jan 30 12:33:54 2003
JJ I'm afraid you appear to have had your answer on local cuisine. We do a good line in Vitriol Escalope, Racist Stroganoff and Ignorance on toast but apart from that we have little to offer. For my own part I don't think your daughter will be too impressed if I make my own burnt offering of Stir-Fried Chicken. Come on ladies of Merseyside, there must be some way you can help this gentleman out of his distress....
Jon Haymer <JH>
Waterloo, , UK, Thu Jan 30 12:06:32 2003
Andy Lake........ I see what you mean. Some of these fellas have REAL issues. Apparently one of them has been PAYING to watch Everton for 15 years. Sean, you sicko.
Gerry M <GM Foods>
Crosby, , UK, Thu Jan 30 11:59:51 2003
Its worse than that Jon, I now understand how me and 35,000 others have been fooled by the Zionists for 15 years. We have all thought that Everton weren't winning anything because they had no money and were run by a bunch of fools, but no!!!! It is the Zionists who are victimising us and inflicting slow torture on the Gwladys Street End. Now, I see the truth, and I expect Tottenham to win the League
Sean Golding <Blues>
Seaforth, , U, Thu Jan 30 11:33:01 2003
Ah, see how the GOYIM(cattle) have been well-trained...

These fools are too stupid to see the truth even when it stares them in the face. Thank God they can't be bothered to get of their cattle-behinds and go and do their own research. Instead they get their "information" from the idiot-box, which WE control....
Polanski the Paedophile <>
, , , Thu Jan 30 11:16:47 2003


That's right Sean. My girlfriend left me last year because of the Zionist plot. She was actually a high ranking member of Mossad and had been feeding them the secrets of the best drinking dens in Merseyside (Surely the Old Bank). I realise now that the world would be perfect without Jews (Except perhaps Rachel from S-Club 7). In fact it is they who have made the weather so cold today - a trick they often seem to pull at this time of year.
Jon H <JH>
Waterloo, , UK, Thu Jan 30 10:54:18 2003
Well, I think they're great too. They've really helped me. I used to think that the reason I never won the lottery was that I was crap at picking numbers and am just plain unlucky. I now understand that it is all a Zionist plot and that I am a helpless victim.
Sean Golding <Blues>
Seaforth, , UK, Thu Jan 30 10:31:34 2003
Andy These fellas are brilliant. One of them has been watching the news for the last year and thinks Saddam has "weapons of Mass Seduction." Maybe he's right and we should be praying for an Iraqi attack on Merseyside - lots of gorgeous veiled ladies luring us into a web of intrigue......
Jon Haymer <jh>
Waterloo, , UK, Thu Jan 30 10:12:37 2003
talk about political agenda, some of you guys have real issues. now don't get me wrong, there is a place for propaganda and spin, or debate, but is the CC the best place for it? we are simple people, local people, and we'll have no trouble here...
Andy Lake Azarius <>
Royston Vasey, , , Thu Jan 30 09:53:51 2003
I didn't know we had any Zionists(=THE REAL RACISTS) among us???
Pavlov's Dog <>
, , , Thu Jan 30 09:48:05 2003
Oh, dear. What a sad bunch of racists lurk in the waters of the Crosby Channel.
Get a life <>
, , , Thu Jan 30 08:01:59 2003
Anyway, talking of Arsenal, not too bad a result tonight.
JG <>
sadly,no longer Crosby, , , Wed Jan 29 22:51:55 2003
By series of curious chances, I am in receipt of a request what I can' do owt about. It is from my daughter who, in a praiseworthy wish to keep the easily loseable and so maintain a thread of tradition far from where that tradition grew, has asked my collaboration in recipes for what we had as children, being the real thing what was Liverpool current after the war. Whilst I did make orange marmalade as a lad and oatcakes as a Sea Scout based in Holden Road, that was about the limit and since both my parents died in 1989, I am back-to-the-walled on this. I am therefore asking - lasses especially - whether folk could send over some of the traditional staples. Anything goes though the actual asked-for's are: blancmange, trifle and scones (pronounced right, natch). My e-mail is jakelly@telcel.net.ve though, were some of those gems of yesteryoreyear deemed (self deeming is IN in this stuff) conservation quality, why not also allow the TCC'ers at large also to benefit from the aggregate kitchen skills on hand in ladies' accumulated wisdomery and post some on TCC. As an 'and furthermore', add-on, I would mention that that would permit a very particluar channel cohesion - I mean, "Another slice of Andy's grandmother's fruit cake, M'dear?" as the sun goes down over the jasmin bush and mango tree has a fetching chime in my mind that isn't out of keeping with a promising evening at home. With Mersey overtones, nostalgicated.

"Oh all right then. It certainly does have that glorious black and white and Regent sidealk 'Eh, Missus, take us in to the fillum what's an A?' authenticity doesn't it, M'dear?"

Throwing myeself on Crosbegian generosity and spontaneity, I look forward in hope to a few little somethings in the near term upcomings... and thanking you kindly...

...& God Bless
jj <jj>
The Caracas Part, .., Vendles, Wed Jan 29 19:19:23 2003


There's NO business like Shoah-business like no business I know...

STOP brainwashing kids with this CRAP, you little worm... It never happened...
Son of Shem <>
, , , Wed Jan 29 19:02:29 2003


Can I just point out that to commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day, we at the Plaza are screening a series of related films, including: Costa Gavras' Amen, Into The Arms of Strangers (Stories of the Kindertransport) & Louis Malle's brilliant "Au RevoirLes Enfants" these film are FREE, contact the cinema. also we will soon be screening Polanki's "The Pianist" & a new film by Bernard Tavernier: "Laissez Passer" (Safe Conduct). Further details from our website www.plazacinema.org.uk or ring us on 0151-474-4076. Ta
john hodge <john@plazacinema.org.uk>
Waterloo, , , Wed Jan 29 13:01:39 2003
Grrr....
Bonnie the Kosher Dog <>
Rather partial to bagels, , , Wed Jan 29 07:26:13 2003
Occupied Jerusalem: 3 October, 2001 (IAP) -- According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, [Shimon] Peres warned [Ariel] Sharon Wednesday that refusing to heed American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us."

At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, WE, THE JEWISH PEOPLE, CONTROL AMERICA - AND THE AMERICANS KNOW IT."
Son of Shem <>
, , , Wed Jan 29 00:57:22 2003


Unlike the Zionists' vast arsenal, I don't believe that Saddam has "Weapons of Mass Seduction", but if he has, I hope and pray that he unloads them all in one huge dollop on Tel Aviv, should Iraq be attacked...

You can go back to sleep now, children - FOR A LITTLE WHILE...
Greg Stillson <>
An insignificant little speck called Crosby, , , Wed Jan 29 00:39:53 2003


That should read ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS....
Son of Shem <>
, , , Wed Jan 29 00:04:25 2003
As for secret taxes, the Zionists don't need 'em...

FACT: the USA pays MORE in aid every year to the Zionist entity(for the lemmings' benefit, that's ISRAEL) than it does TO THE ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED... Anyone care to explain???

On average every American "citizen" pays 000 a year to the Zionist entity...Why???
Son of Shem <>
, , , Wed Jan 29 00:03:29 2003


Oh, no...Pavlov strikes again!! Let's not get started on that other Zionist extortion racket - the Hollow-hoax!!!!

As for the censorship imposed by the panicked bunny-rabbit who runs this site, no doubt she would prefer us to babble ad nauseam about bav-slices on burbo-bank rather than the FACT THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE HORRIBLY KILLED *IN OUR NAME* - LET ALONE THE REASONS WHY....
Son of Shem <>
, , , Tue Jan 28 23:55:45 2003


Frank: Visit here and you will find that the Kosher NOstra site contains much false information. http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/kosher.htm
saddened <>
, , , Tue Jan 28 23:41:16 2003
Bill, I understand that Liverpool has probably the oldest synagogue in the country. When I lived in Waterloo, we had a Jewish family on our street, Mr. and Mrs. Bernstein. He was the owner of one of about two cars in the entire neighbourhood. On Sunday mornings Mr. Bernstein would pick up and deliver the Catholic children who lived on his street and drop them off at church. Such actions made an indelible mark on one's memory. To further my comments, an interesting piece of history was learned when visiting Venice, Italy....St. Mark's Cathedral there, believe it or not, has a section for the Jews to worship as well as a section for Muslims to worship- all within the same walls of a Catholic Cathedral. The big question today is, of course, is what ever happened to co-operation and tolerance. My previous posting was not an anti-semitic rant. Like many people, I'm in this world, not of it. Oh yes, to the pictorial poster- I think that you meant to say "Arbeit Macht Frei"?
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , Canada, Tue Jan 28 22:51:22 2003
it is very sad to see anti-semitism on these pages. Liverpool had a reputation as a tolerant, diverse city.
saddened <>
, , , Tue Jan 28 20:11:28 2003
Sorry Frank, but there is a bit of a hiatus in our views. While I do not feel that a geopolitical entity can be created on the basis of a god-given right, confirmed by fictional documents over 2000 years old, it doesn't mean that I subscribe to the "Jewish World Domination Theory"

I'm a bit sorry I brought up the subject now...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Jan 28 12:22:31 2003


George W = thick, school bully with his gang of Noo cowboy robber oil barons. While fruity head prefect swot Tory Blair cowardly sucks up to them hoping they'll protect him from being beaten up by those nasty, rough kids from the council estate. And we elect these people!
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
No to Noo, Yes to Burbo, , Tue Jan 28 07:42:13 2003
Bill, Illogical as it sounds, Saddam being the madman that he appears to be, may indeed be inviting the destruction of IRAQ. But why. Is he mad? Is he trying to stir things up between the Arab world and the Jews? Is he endeavouring to ensure the destruction of Israel once and for all by drawing ALL Arab countries into the conflict? And yes, the Jews do indeed have a stranglehold on American policy and the billions of US dollars that Israel takes from the United States every year in the form of so called foreign aid is a major bone of contention with Arabs. And when you realize how many Muslims live in the United States and how little say they have in regards to this unfair gifting, you will realize that something has do be done to even the score. Lately there has been a lot of media attention to the fact that in the United States, the "Jews" control the media just as the "Jews control Hollywood. Movies always seem to portray the Jews as the underdog or the Jew as the hero. Consider this when next watching EXODUS or BEN HUR or some other epic. This is one reason that people take sides. We are seldom given the facts or told the truth. In North America we are all victims of the KOSHER NOSTRA. Key this into your search engine and you will discover that modern day gangsters are bilking billions of dollars from large international conglomerates to support the war efforts in the Middle East. It's us who are the suckers, - the Canadians, the British and the Americans. Someday, somebody will rule us if we don't put a stop to it now. ffrank in Canada <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, , Long winded Rant, Tue Jan 28 02:11:13 2003


Very witty, babs - still waters run deep! jj - Give me time - maybe 18 months or so! I will of course drop by on other matters in between - it will , no doubt, depend upon the 'Dish of the Day'!
bernard <>
Winchester, , , Mon Jan 27 21:10:48 2003
Frank, not only do I think that Saddam is not actually worried about an Anglo-American invasion, I think it's what he wants!

When the doo-doo (bloody net nanny) hits the rotor blades, he's going to be somewhere safe.

Meanwhile Arab public opinion is going to be buzzing with a few serious questions, like:

How come Israel has ignored at least 4 U.N. resolutions without being invaded, and has possessed weapons of mass destruction since the seventies, paid for by American money, without being chastised by anybody? "See what we mean, the Westerners hate Islam...Just sign here and you'll be a fully-fledged Al-Qaida martyr

The likelihood that invasion will create a terrorist backlash probably doesn't bother Mr. Blair or Mr. Bush as it will give them the opportunity to reduce individual freedom even more than in the months since 911.

Babs, there won't be a war on Wednesday, but don't book any Crocus holidays for the end of February... Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Jan 27 20:41:08 2003


If I had any shares to sell I would re-invest in Burbo Brew! Thanks for your words of wisdom jj. If theses guys are so off course on one point then their other information of course cannot be recommended. I do know some folk who believe wholeheartedly in the information on it. Myself? I'm afraid I'm a bit of a skimmer and scanner and head in the sand sticker.(Burbosand of course)
Babs <>
Scanport, , , Mon Jan 27 18:06:03 2003
Besides, oil is now the cause of war and it does so make such a mess when those tankers crack open. Park your car and take the train.
ffrank again <>
, , Ranting and raving over all the news, Mon Jan 27 17:22:15 2003
Hot tip: Sell your shares in oil and re-invest the money in Raleigh Bicycles stock.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
Toronto, , , Mon Jan 27 17:15:16 2003
I feel a NOO rant coming on. Down Bonnie. Sit!
Andy Melia <>
The World, Says No, to NOO, Mon Jan 27 16:36:09 2003
Dear Babs, I looked up that site. Whatever else they are right about I cannot say but their observations about the Venzuelan situation are so off base as to be outright falsehood. If you're going to get some info on our stuff here, you may deem BBC World or somesuch ok. (I wouldn't, btw) If you're going to write about it for the public at large then you should check your stuff out. Inasmuch as the site obviously didn't, they reveal a dimension of irresonsibilty guaranteeing my never going back to looksee their stuff again. I did, however, take the opportunity to write them a little rejoinder, wherefore, thanks. The guy has a history of gadflying and there's nothing generically wrong with that at all, quite the opposite, but the transmission as fact of something false is a big mistake. If knowingly undertaken, another definition applies. I aslo notice an American cultural bias, being that, if there's big stuff afoot in oily matters, "WE" have to have been involved. Well, we here don't think so matey and furthermore, on what imperial Yankee grounds do you justify this attempted hijack of our very extenuating civic stoppage, by no means bereft of a certain nobility at the common man level? Why don't you just run away and stick your IHOP pancakes someplace out of the sunshine, WayneCurtisVanDorenPoindexter?

Late in the day, there is of course the other promising Brazilian initiative underway under the auspices of the Organsation of American States, sitting in Washington, in which the US is taking part. Those guys will be down here this week. All of which is another story.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Jan 27 14:59:21 2003


According to this website U.S. - IRAQ INVASION LIKELY TO BEGIN before Wednseday ~ scary~ http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/012403_invasion.html
Babs <>
Scaryport, , , Mon Jan 27 08:08:44 2003
At the Battle of The Little Big Horn against the Sioux and Cheyenne warriors,( Referred to by historians as Custer's last stand), General George Custer's last words were......."CHR*ST, look at all them Injuns"........... .................................................... ............................In SADDAM'S case it will likely be something similar..... "ALLAH, look at all those AMERICANS".
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, N O R TH A M E R I C A, Department of Historical Affairs, Mon Jan 27 02:34:00 2003
Dear Bernard, In response to your "Well?", I wasn't struck with the Daughter. Interesting? Absolutely. Well researched? Needless to say. A 'Good' read. After her longitude book, not as good a read as I'd hoped for. My fault maybe.

Still, for lively changes of gear, let me recommend "The Oregon Trail" incorporating in the same book, "The Pontiac Conspiracy"(Francis Parkman, Googleable). When you're through, let me know what you thought. The trail book was written in 1847 and is the account of the young Francis Parkman's trip beyond Fort Larramee, along that trail and includes details of his six-week stay with the Sioux indians, being the "Dahkotah" in his appelation. The Pontiac account covers the period of the Brit-French barneys in Canada in the two decades before the declaration of independence and even tells of a foray made during indian troubles on the Pennsylvania border under the command of an able young Brit colonial officer, one George Washington. This is all exciting stuff and a thorough from the learned, modernly couched pap often on offer. And, in terms of a nicht nur sondern auch event, I would energetically affirm that it readily falls into the category that delighted you as a youngster and maybe not-so-youngster and still delights me, namely, that of a "Good Yarn". And we do find that Pontiac himself, an amazing character, wasn't American as our US cousins and especially Michiganonians might have thought, but a great chief of the Ottawa tribe, not even associate members of the five nations. The book is probably available because until recently, it was virtually required reading in the US education system. Then Political Correctness caught up with it.

....& God Bless
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Jan 26 21:31:37 2003


Too deep for me Bernard ......
babs <>
SOUTHPORT, , , Sun Jan 26 20:24:34 2003
Well?
Bernard <>
Winchester, , , Sun Jan 26 20:03:12 2003
Babs, there's a Spanish proverb that a Catholic priest is called "Father" by everyone, except his own children who call him "Uncle".

Gerry P's a Catholic priest, and P.P. of (if memory serves) St. Dominic's.

Doesn't guarantee that he's got no kids of his own, but I think Gerry's the old-fashioned type of priest who takes his vows seriously...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Sun Jan 26 15:43:41 2003


Beth~ Gerry Proctor doesn't have a son called Paul does he?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sun Jan 26 11:16:37 2003
Ellis Island ~ been there and played with their keyboards in the flesh so to speak. Interesting stuff to be found too~ loads of Carlyon's (maiden name)Some of them entered the States several times. They used to go twoing and frowing across the Atlantic apparently. No statuesque heads though unless you count the one on the Island next door.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sun Jan 26 11:15:07 2003
I do apologise, but is anybody out there having any problems with the new Nectar rewards points scheme operated by Sainsbury's, Barclaycard. BP and Debenhams? As far as I am concerned it is an unmitigated disaster, which seems to be giving rise to problems which Sainsbury's are unwilling to address, and the Nectar proprietors, incapable of dealing with.
consumer <>
Crosby, , , Sat Jan 25 21:22:30 2003
Talking of schools, pay attention: here's today's history lesson. Came across an interesting site that lists all immigrants to Ellis Island, NY at the turn of century. This includes vistors and ship's crew and gives their place of residence before departure. Already found my merchant seaman grandfather. It's free to register and you just type in your surname. go to: www.ellisisland.org
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Burbo Immigration Services, , , Sat Jan 25 07:56:03 2003
Chesterfield High School. There. Said it. So f**k you.
pete <>
, , , Fri Jan 24 16:46:12 2003
Hello Everyone. I was just wondering if anyone would be interested in helping my family fill in our family tree. We have come across some old beautiful letters from family and they come from Liverpool in the the late 1800's. If anyone could shed some light on the Crosby family, we would much appreciate it. Thanks
cheryl crosby <slicknscroll@aol.com>
wall, new jersey, usa, Fri Jan 24 00:54:58 2003
SMOBs are OK. Have moved on to the girl with a pearl earring. That is via Linda's @ When I lived in modern times @ which helped to maitain my sanity but not my spelling, typing or punctuation over the last week or so! Am looking forward to Galileo's Daughtter - dash still can't spell - But that won't be untill April via ????? Anyone read it yet or are you still reading Kinky. Your comments may help me appear to be incredibly academic and nolegable at the next meeting of the Book Club - are you feeling altruistic? Love you alll anyway! Bernard
Bernard <>
Winchester, , , Thu Jan 23 22:59:35 2003
Oh hell! 18 months, 1