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...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Apr 28 19:56:51 2003
In the BBC vote on Capital of Culture, Liverpool has lost the lead and is now LAGGING BEHIND NEWCASTLE!
Today is your last chance to vote for Liverpool, before the result is announced at 10.30pm tonight (Monday).
You can vote for Liverpool by dialling 0901 190 3040 and pressing '4' for Liverpool when prompted or online via www.bbc.co.uk/capitalofculture
Andy Melia <>
Burbo or Geordie?, Your choice, , Mon Apr 28 16:27:57 2003
Dear Bill, I am down to jokes from Galicia, in North West Spain, our local equivalent of Irish ones: When a British spy, after shootouts and fast women galore, opted for week off in a quiet Galician inn, he arrived and asked for his reservation, "And what would the name be sir?" asked the local lad. Proffering a hand, our man said, "Bond; - James Bond." Spluttering for a moment, the Galician took the proffered hand saying, "Nolo; - Ma-Nolo". If that falls flat, ask the one who does your most confidential Spanish translations about it.
....& God bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Fri Apr 25 15:10:29 2003
Remember Socrates? Logic, deduction and EVIDENCE... I can't find any one of these anywhere in the posts of jj (or his flatlander echo) [dear reader, please look them over again, and check for yourself!] - just a belch of unsupported, unsupportable assertions, olympian generalizations and creaking cart-before-horse conclusions, rather pompously served up as actualité...
Remember this - mere PROXIMITY does not equate to PERCEPTIVITY... Otherwise every New Yorker would be chanting a mantra slightly more grown-up than "it was mad muslim terrorists who hate our freedom."
Judged by the frequency and proxility of the internet-missives coming our way from "America's backyard", their author can't get out that often... No doubt he watched the whole coup/"non-coup" on "telly" - so as far as I'm concerned he wasn't "there", no more than I was. If he had really "been there" he'd be telling us about his first-hand EXPERIENCES, not half-baked, Caracas coffee-house conspiracies.
I prefer the analysis of trained journalists of integrity, with the professional experience and political nouse to recognize and report what THEY SEE - the organized relentless de-stabilization of a democratically-elected government, leading to a botched coup...[a near carbon-copy of Chile 1973]. And it ain't over yet....
Anthony Rockingham <>
Crosby, , , Fri Apr 25 01:46:28 2003
Because, semi-literate that you seem to be, and stubborn to the core, if you look at the top left-hand page of this web site, you will see the words "Crosby" and "Channel".
John is Crosby's correspondent in down town Caracas, and we will believe him at all times, because he has no agenda, hidden or otherwise. And even if he does, who cares. Do you really think that in this small coerner of cyberspace we care what towel-heads and diegos do to each other in their own countries. Rowlocks! Now get in the program, or get off the ship, 'cos this space is a joke area, and I haven't done much laughing recently.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 24 21:38:38 2003
...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Thu Apr 24 21:36:15 2003
http://www.counterpunch.org/reilly0415.html
looks like our Venezuelan boiling frog has fallen for the usual CIA "false flag" operation. Why!! - the gunmen even wore tee-shirts with el presidentes face on them - so therefore Chavez ordered the killings...
Goodnight children, Uncle Sam's going to read you a nice bedtime story...
Anthony Rockingham <>
, , , Thu Apr 24 21:01:23 2003
None of that makes any sense....
For a better take on the Venezuelan coup...
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum0414.html
The Yanks have a glorious track record on this kind of thing, remember??
Anthony Rockingham <>
, , , Thu Apr 24 20:48:19 2003
As for websites, you may also try http://www.vheadline.com/main.asp since it's in English and written locally. There is a constitutional option of a revocatory referendum of the presidential mandate available and that could be put in train on 19th August. The required signatures have been collected and even very the supreme court, sensitive as it is to every whiff from the governemnt, has said they are valid. The government party, having agreed to it all now claims all manner of misdeeds, - no matter that the court's finding settled the matter - and wants each signature examined and proven to be original and not a copy taken from alleged bank account registries. At this stage, no one can be sure that the referendum, until recently the regime's preferred option to solve the crisis, will ever take place. On Sunday, the president said that, with everything going so well, he expects to rule until the yaer 2021, some 9 years longer than any law would normally allow. Heigh ho!
In short, there is an unpopular communist takeover á la Cubana underway and foreign ignorance of facts on the ground doesn't help. I say facts because, as I have learned over time, truth is a moving target. Facts are less so and each builds his own truth on facts in the actual sequence and each will arrive at his conclusion, depending on his cultural biases - no-one is free of them - at the outset.
The weather is great and the chicharras are in full song, meaning that the rains are only a couple of weeks away, all good news since we've had four years of relative drought and reservoirs are way down. Caracas has had water rationing now for several months. the price of tennis balls is up too, with imports restricted owing to there being no foreign exchange available for the last 3 months.
...& God Bless
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Apr 23 22:04:45 2003
Situation in Venezuela deteriorating yet again - young children reciting diatribes at endlss imauguration ceremonies, of the "Head of yanqui beast must be severed" variety, all with approving nods from, inter alia, some Brit called Tarik Alí - but my computer is working again. I had bad problems with a virus and only after drastickest measures was able to get rid of it. My apologies to anyone who might have gotten unsolicited mail, ostensibly from me but, in fact, part of my recent calvaric undergoings.
...& God www.blundellsandssailingclub.8m.com/november02 sks Should bring back a few memories.sks
Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, has spoken with blunt exasperation about the Jewish-Israeli hold on the United States:
"The Israelis control the policy in the congress and the senate ... somewhere around 80 percent of the senate of the United States is completely in support of Israel -- of anything Israel wants...." -- Chairman Senator Fullbright, 10/07/1973 on CBS' "Face the Nation".
Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar who has taught political science at City University of New York (Hunter College), says in his book, The Holocaust Industry, that "invoking The Holocaust" is "a ploy to delegitimize all criticism of Jews." "By conferring total blamelessness on Jews, the Holocaust dogma immunizes Israel and American Jewry from legitimate censure ... Organized Jewry has exploited the Nazi holocaust to deflect criticism of Israel's and its own morally indefensible policies." He writes of the brazen "shakedown" of Germany, Switzerland and other countries by Israel and organized Jewry "to extort billions of dollars." "The Holocaust," Finkelstein predicts, "may yet turn out to be the 'greatest robbery in the history of mankind'."
Jews in Israel feel free to act brutally against Arabs, writes Israeli journalist Ari Shavit, "believing with absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our own." The New York Times, May 27, 1996
The French ambassador in London, Daniel Bernard, privately acknowledged that Israel -- which he called "that s****y little country" -- is threatening world peace. "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?" he bluntly said. Jerusalem Post 20/12/2001 One I particularly like is Counterpunch, edited by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St John. (Alexander is a brilliant essayist and polemicist.) Like CD and Z Net, CP offers an "alternative" view of contemporary issues from mainstream media. It's great, because where else can one read (apart from buying their books) the dissenting voices of Chomsky and Said and other intellectual luminaires! I hope your films are as clear as your postings to this group, 'cos I try and try, but I can't see your point. Maybe you should stick to porn.Mind you, from what you've said so far, I assume few of your leading men are circumcised...
"America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World
War. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the spring of 1917. Had
we made peace there would have been no collapse of Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy
followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in
Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all of these 'isms' wouldn't be sweeping the continent of Europe
and breaking down parliamentary government, and if England made peace early in 1917, it would have saved
over one million British, French, American and other lives. Germany's peace offer to Great Britain asked for
neither indemnities nor reparations. Germany offered to restore the territorial status and the political
independence of every country with whom Great Britain was at war, as they existed in August l9l4 when the war
in Europe started. Germany demanded no benefits." Malcolm, as if you needed any confirmation of the motivation for the presen war, read the following: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0414-02.htm and then read the bit in today's newspaper about the contract Bechtel has "just been awarded..." (I picked this up via the "Right Wing Watch" mailing list.) Claire, I have a suggestion. It is easy to program your website so thatthe IP number of every poster is reported along with e-mail, location, etc. With a few exceptions, this would mean that nobody could anonymously post racist or extremely abusive material, because we could all send TOSs to their providers. I hate playing netcop, but some things are too much, even for obtuse little old me...
By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.
SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.
And it may well be that this same astounding race may at the present time be in the actual process of producing another system of morals and philosophy, as malevolent as Christianity was benevolent, which, if not arrested would shatter irretrievably all that Christianity has rendered possible. It would almost seem as if the gospel of Christ and the gospel of Antichrist were destined to originate among the same people; and that this mystic and mysterious race had been chosen for the supreme manifestations, both of the divine and the diabolical.
International Jews.
In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus- Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.
Terrorist Jews.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and an the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution: by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.
The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
Another most cogent reason for the adoption by the Allies of the policy of the declaration lay in the state of Russia herself. Russian Jews had been secretly active on behalf of the Central Powers from the first; they had become the chief agents of German pacifist propaganda in Russia; by 1917 they had done much in preparing for that general disintegration of Russian society, later recognised as the Revolution. It was believed that if Great Britain declared for the fulfilment of Zionist aspirations in Palestine under her own pledge, one effect would be to bring Russian Jewry to the cause of the Entente.
It was believed, also, that such a declaration would have a potent influence upon world Jewry outside Russia, and secure for the Entente the aid of Jewish financial interests. In America, their aid in this respect would have a special value when the Allies had almost exhausted the gold and marketable securities available for American purchases. Such were the chief considerations which, in 1917, impelled the British Government towards making a contract with Jewry.
David Lloyd George, Memoirs of the Peace Conference, Volume II, New Haven, Yale University Press 1939
It's about as subtle a clue as, say...
The Rise of Communism Hmmm. Someone who has even less understanding of philosophy than they do of history. AS for the school they attended, Mr. Mayor, take Mr. Rockingham's advice about doing your research by typing his name into "Google". You get quite an interesting result! There ain't no such thing as co-incidence ;) When I was a youth, (conservative) Cllr. Neville Goldrein was Mayor of our belovéd Borough. I didn't like his politics, but I never felt him to be a Zionist threat. Mind you, being annexed might not have been so bad. Think of the cheap oranges! If a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but the thinker must also then question WHY he was led to believe the erroneous information in the first place. Not surprisingly, this type of teaching didn't sit well with the ruling elite of Greece... Many political leaders throughout history have always sought to mislead the thinking of the masses. Socrates was tried for "subversion" and for "corrupting the youth". He was then forced to take his own life by drinking hemlock. The equivalent modern treatment is to be labelled a "conspiracy-theorist" or "anti-Semite"
For those who are brave enough to apply Socratean philosophy to our own situation, I would commend the following
History of the Pelopponesian War by Thucydides [pre-emptive strike war, how the masses can be easily manipulated by myths]
Remember the wisdom of Socrates - and do your own research!! Dear AF, It's interesting to note that half of the historians you recommend are very conservative to extreme right-wing: Lord Alan Bullock (read his book on Hitler many, many years ago, and if my memory serves me right--which is always a dangerous thing to say---I think Bullock may have glowingly endorsed Shirer's book on the back or front of the "The Rise and Fall...as essential reading for anyone wanting to understand the Nazi era ); Lord Trevor-Roper and David Irving. (Is Lord Trevor-Roper the very same historian who made such a damn fool of himself and his profession in authenticating the fake Hitler Diaries? If so, hardly a historian I would use as an example to bolster my argument). Some historians would argue that to be there when history is taking place is infinitely better than relying on other peoples' interpretation of what actually occured. Others may take you stance and argue history has to "pass" before the the past can be re-constructed. Question: would you like to be a policeman/Dectective etc, witnessing a crime first -hand and then with the available evidence from onlookers determine what happened or just rely on evidence of witnesses? ps Neither you nor JJ have enumerated the elusive "valid analogies" between Hussein and Hitler.
mhughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au> Some historians would argue that to be there when history is taking place is infinitely better than relying on other peoples' interpretation of what actually occured. Others may take you stance and argue history has to "pass" before the the past can be re-constructed. Question: would you like to be a policeman/Dectective etc, witnessing a crime or rely on the evidence of others? You say ps Neither you nor JJ have enumerated the elusive "valid analogies" between Hussein and Hitler.
mhughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
Babs - no he's not (well, as far as I know, anyway), and pray tell, who is this hot Marina gal the Mayor has been jiving with?
Mr Mangler - you must be thinking of someone else, as Bill was present (and as far as I can recall, correct) at Brookes I and II; I remember this distinctly because he drank most of the beer ;-) The only reason the stinking carcass of Hitler is dug up at regular intervals is purely for propaganda purposes. Apart from the fact that both men were tyrants of the worst sort the only other comparision that springs to mind is they both had a penchant for moustaches and military uniforms. You would do well to read William Shirer's truly brilliant critique of Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Riech: A History of the Nazi Germany" (an exceptionally long but worthwhile read)to see why a historical analogy between the two is simplistic and misleading. Having seen the effects of nuclear weapons, not just on Japanese civilians, but by testing them on their own citizens (!) the nuclear powers continued to build them. That's pretty sick, John! And since it was clear that Japan had already sued for peace over a week before Hiroshima, the argument that it shortened the war and saved hundreds of thousands of lives doesn't wash either... Dear Joe Public, I can assure you that Saddam was and may still be a willing component in a global setup and any analogy with Hitler is quite valid: all totalitarian rulers use the same absolutist approach and have the same regard for the common mortals that are in their section of the global train. Saddam had already had two wars before this one too, both expansionist. Adolpherianly redolent, wouldn't you have thought? Dear Andy, If weapons of mass destruction are inherently immoral and evil, where does that leave France, the UK, the US, Russia, Israel, India and Pakistan, plus any nuclear lurkers out there? And would your reference to assasination of heads of state refer to anyone particular who, in uniform and surrounded by generals, very overtly commands 'his' nation's forces because, were that the case, then his physical demise at the hands of his declared enemies wouldn't be assasination of a head of state. It would amount to another enemy soldier becoming a fatal casualty. I would also mention that, had the German dissidents or the allies managed to knock off Hitler it during the war, they would have saved all sorts of lives, both allied and Axis. So what exactly amounts to assasination in the head of state case? JFK would be one, I guess but not Saddam, if indeed, he died at all. Or got plastic surgery and is now ensconced in some Caribbean resort telling the credulous that he's Brad Pitt. Without getting into the 'war or not' barney, I would observe that all street-smarts advice offered to any of us under threat of death, entails our ceding to demands without resistance, regardless of whether licit, for the good of our and our families' continued existence. By an analogy - whose validity might engender a friendly exchange - I would suggest that once Saddam really had a 100% credible threat on his doorstep, namely, after the first missile exploded in his backyard, he should stopped the war short by walking away from it all, fat chequebook in hand and gone into exile, as invited to do by neighbours, for the good of his country. As it is, his refusal to give in in the face of certain defeat was no more than a sacrifice of his own people on the altar of his ego. As for stupid humans, I read a book once about the fourteenth century and one of its opening sentences was, "So what exactly was decided on Bosworth Field?" There is more but on egets part of the drift from an assertion in the introduction, being "King Henry was 34 years old before he realised that the world really is as silly as it seems." Plus que cela change,... etc. ....& God Bless What has upset me for a long time is that the western governments pay lip service to concepts like freedom and democracy, and let countries like the Congo go to hell on a handcar. I have for years been convinced that it's because it's Africa. Sunny Abacha was sitting on one of the world's greatest reserves of oil, and milking his country dry, torturing and murdering dissidents, and neither the White House nor Number 10 showed any concern, so oil's not the whole issue. A boycott at the Commonwealth Games was the only sanction if memory serves! However, those now protesting against the actions of the coalition in Iraq (and shortly Syria, I fear) sat on their arzez while million were slaughtered in Ruanda, and later Congo. There is a token force of 4500 U.N. peacekeepers, but their primary task is to guard U.N. facilities, not to police the situation. I didn't notice anyone cutting and pasting material from obscure websites to bring this to the attention of Crosbeians. And I hate people who attack others on the 'net while using the anonymity thereof to hide. So if one of these contributors says "the sky is blue" I will insist that it is green, just to get them riled. And guess what? It works. ;) Interesting how when we talk about the lessons of history, we get such a good one on revisionism. Welcome back, Master Bates ! Another shi'ite who hides behind the anonymity of the internet... I regret that this time, I will make this the only contribution to this debate, cos, sonny boy, YOU ain't worth the effort. At least Voltaire et al. made some intelligent points. ;) 1. Weapons of mass destruction are immoral and evil. So that gets us off the hook, doesn't it?. 2. It is acceptable to asassinate a foreign head of state. 3. Humans are far more stoopid than I thought. The pseudonyms:Eric Blair;Clark Kent;Maxwell Smart;John Donne;Alexander 4;peace activist; Edwin Starr and Joe Public are officially retired. The allusion to 1939 was made in the context of not dealing with a dictator. Hence your friend's referal to the much often used Chamberlain quote: "peace in our time". The historical analogy between Hitler, an evil genius who wanted to rule the world and create a 1000 year Reich, and Hussein, a third-rate thug, does not exist. It exists only in the minds of people, such as your friend and Mr Bush, who has himself, used the quote on more than one occasion to scare people into thinking Mr Hussien was about to launch WWW3. You are right on one score, though: we must delve into the past to explain the present and maybe...the future. The Treaty of Versailles was one of the main catalysts which allowed the rise of Hitlerism. And the present troubles in the Middle East can in large part be lain at the doorstep of the Treaty: the re-drawing of national boundaries in the region to suit British and French national interests; and the contradictory promises made by the British (The Balfour D)to Palestinians and the newly emerging Zionist movement, which had chosen Palestine as the place to create a new nation. Apropos your comments on racism: Sorry...the illogicality, flimsyness and non-sequitars that overload your argument don't need a reply. People just have to go to your posting to see why! If you're struggling with the meaning of racism here's a classic racist statement from former PM of Israel, Goldie Meir, when seeking to justify Israel's acquistion of Palestinian land for Jews: " a land without a people, a people without a land". As for a generic comment on past and present, I have often thought that today's folk are growing up in an electronic world where 'right now' is the only time seen as real. In other words, they are in large measure growing up without a past. That is grave inasmuch as it's not something easily tacked on later and, like some subtle diseases such as chronic hypertension, it is not felt and so not seen as being significant. "Outdated rantings of outdated people". And like hypertension, so it stays, until something blows up in somebody's face and then, "Well, how could we have been expected to foresee ..(what in fact had been staring you in the face for a while)? I mean, it was never seen as impacting the specifics of the prevailing episodes unfolding as a result of... (my superior acute perception of)...." And so it goes. Then, someone with 20/20 hindsight vision, remembers that some Crompton fellow mentioned something by an earlier chap, a Santaella or somesuch, about being forced to relive history. 'Ah yes, well that was prescient wasn't it? Unfortunate about old Ahmed though, And Ben. Who'd've thought it? Who dwells on the past anyway and to what its relevance in the third millennium? All tripe, I say. I'll have a double scotch there please ...... Battle of the Boyne, you say? Is that some American tradional sport with cabers and things? ...& God Bless If you actually knew anything about Middle Eastern history, you would know that the events starting off in 1939 are the direct cause of the events in the Gulf today. In fact, we could even go back to Versailles, 1919. But these are facts, and I notice we mustn't let facts get in the way of a good debate, must we, Mr. Starr? BTW I used to think fishing was the most boring hobby in the universe, but now I feel one caught on my hook, I'm beginning to realise why the anglers do it...
What has 1939 got to do with todays events? The historical comparision is simplistic and absurd; as any historian worth his salt will tell you. Mind you, I must admit Bush and co have attempted the same historical nexus. SAY NO MORE!!! ps your slipslod work is well excused. pps Dear mr crompton, as the organ grinders monkey you would do well to remember that hubris, will in the end, cut down any man or idea(or should it be boy, with you?). ...& God Bless Dear Babs, And I found Shirley Abicair! Catch that between your teeth and say "2/6 and three points, please!" ....& God Bless Someone who gets worried about the "coalition" wasting hundreds of innocent Iraqis, when Americans are the perpertrators, but apparently couldn't give a flying feck about 3 and a half million Africans getting slaughtered gives me the idea that they don't care about black people. Hence the suggestion that the author is crypto-racist. (look it up!) Those who thrust their opinions down others' throats without respecting requests to stop doing it, or at least to tone it down, are fascists. (look that up as well) When you have learned the art of debate, come back and join the big boys. Till then, sit down, shut up and listen. Maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something...although I doubt you will.(you can say what you like about St. Mary's, they taught us the art of debate!) My apologies if I have rattled your cage. I wonder why people like you defend the indefensibe and act as apoligists for the likes of Bush and his cronies? All this claptrap about more murders are committed each year in Venezuela than the number of civlian casulaties in Iraq beggars belief. What have murders over one side of the world in a violent country got to do with the civlian war casualties in the Middle East? Moreover, how do you know how many civilians have been killed and injured by US/Anglo/Oz military forces? Are you privvy to info we less mortals are not? Because as far as I know NOBODY knows the extent of civlian war casualties.Civilain bodies are still buried under tons and tons of rubble. Do you understand that? WE DON'T KNOW YET!! A war is still being fought. Civilians are dying now. Civilians will no doubt die in the future from the cluster bombs dropped by US/Anglo forces. You even tell us that "there wasn't more destruction than was expected either". Well,how did they work that one out? You mean with all these precision bombs they can actually calculate the extent of the damage? Tell me did this calculus also take into consideration the looting and pillaging which took place? To be honest,I know when I beaten..I can't argue with your type of perverse logic. ps JJ, keep rattlin' those pots and pans! ppsBill,why is it when someone disagrees with you they are either a closet rascist or a fascist? Surely even you don't believe the tosh you wrote! Uninteresting factoid #32541 "According to the recent edition of "The Economist", between 1998 and today, approximately 3.5 MILLION people have been killed in Congo". Seems when dark people are killing dark people, our friend who dare not use his own name is not interested, cos I haven't noticed him bringing this to our attention. I suspect, although he is possibly not aware of it himself, our friend is a crypto racist. After all, the death of anyone diminishes ME, regardless of the colour of either victim OR perpetrator. He only seems interested in "light on dark" crime. (and hiding behing the genius of Voltaire and Donne adds no kudos to his contribution. He is, to quote someone else, not fit to lick their boots, let alone use their names...) The greatest of all ironies is that I actually agree with his standpoint, just not with his (lack of) style in presenting it, nor the forum in which you chose to do it... So let's skip the crap and get back to important stuff, like was Mike Mercury cooler in crisis situations than Troy Tempest? And was Marina hot, or not??? Dear Mr. Donne, You might have completed the quote from your work. We have a saying in Spanish, “The biggest lie is the half truth”. Well, look at the rest of your piece. If you find that “the death, destruction and horror inflicted on the Iraqi people is mindboggling”, then your mind is easily boggled: there were more people murdered in Venezuela last year than there were civilian casualties in the war. And the Iraqi people overall seem to be delighted the guy has been brought down. The fact is that, while Donne asserted for us all, “any man’s diminishes me”, the war with all its clumsiness, stupidity and awful mistakes still dealt out a lot less death and destruction on the Iraqi people than the fellow it got rid of. None of this is to justify by a process of ‘the guy who kills fewer is a good guy’ but to put the casualties in a context. There weren’t mindboggling deaths; there wasn’t more destruction than was to be expected either. And If you want mindboggling disregard for human rights, then look at the inter-government arrangement between the British and the Australians and the nuclear test activity at Woomera. I am sure Oz-based TCC’ers will have plenty of pent-up outrage on that score. And you devalue yourself when you resort to children and‘our very core as human beings’ stuff when there are unspeakably worse thing going on, as established policy, with utterly abandoned Korean children and pregnant Nigerian women none of whom ever seem to get a mention. My point here with you and Mr. Donne is not to support some side á outrance but, as I mentioned earlier this week, to make a case for evenhandedness: protest all you want about injustice but let it be injustice that triggers your energy, not personal bitterness, misfittery of any stripe – and we all have some somewhere – so that your stuff has the authority it needs to avoid falling into a trashcan overflowing with similar, often vindictive lighweightery. ….& God Bless In other words, I feel your approach to life opens you to a readier belief in outdated formulations of 1950’s political cant. If you were to look a little further there, you wouldn’t be saying that the US example has a string of followers because it is the leader: what leader? Of what and to where? Certainly here in Latin America, no-one seeks to emulate the US and I am sure in Europe, there aren’t any that want to either. Do the Scots want to be American? The Germans? The Fijians? The Canadians? The Paraguayans? Who then? As for disparity between rich and poor, that is hardly exclusive to America. And political systems aren’t corrupt: people are. If I wanted to throw mud at American society, there’s plenty. I would start with the rights of working women; compared to Europe, for instance, they have damn few but there are no campaigning feminists on that case, it being practical and beneficial to working women, especially mothers, in a word, Real Life Stuff. This situation is far more damaging than more romantically newsworthy stuff and a disgrace to the USA. And then I’d have swipe at the advance and eventual export of the drug problems that they blame largely on the Colombians and the Colombians rightly blame on the US approach to drug legislation and more fundamentally, its own social shortfalls, beginning with the institution of the family. But no,seriously, I'm just an ordinary guy who is against the invasion and all it stands for. I think someone has said this before: the outrage and protestations against the invasion has nothing to do with anti-Americanism.(A very simplistic and misleading analysis of the problem). I don't "hate" the US per se but what I do find repugnant, dangerous and disturbing is the new foreign policy adopted by the extreme right wing in the White House.(Mind you, US foreign policy has always been on the nose. One only has to go to JJ's backyard and see the human rights abuses that the US supported from the early 20th century in Central and South America). Where will the US go next? Syria? North Korea? Libya? Palestine? Jordan? Saudia Arabia? Or it may be a country near your. Wouldn't that make JJ happy!!! Hopefully, before too many more lives are destroyed, American expansionism and triumphalism will sink in its own excesses Trying signing your stuff with the same "pseud"-onym a few times, and I might be able to find the continuity. Let there be no doubt about it: this invasion is illegal and and reprehensible. And we are all affected by it. I sincerely believe we could be a witnessing a proto-type fascism, fuelled by nationalism, emerging in the US where might is right. The US seeks to export a mirror image of itself throughout the world and although it has many good points it is a deeply flawed society. One only has to look the disparity between the rich and the poor;its failing education system; its overflowing prisons; the power of corporations;its corrupted political system and its imperial ambitions. I'm not arguing that the US is the only bad boy on the block. Because it isn't. But it is the leader and the example it sets is followed by others. I don't have a problem with the American people; it's the clique that is running the country which is at fault. The shocking sights of childrens'mangled bodies cannot but touch our very core as human beings. No man is an island.... ...& God Bless US special agent, Maxwell Smart, says they cannot confirm at this stage whether it was the Mayor or one of his doubles. Special agent Smart, however, says that something very bulky was sighted in the man's swimming trunks....WMD? Geneva Convention...don't worry about little things like that(media beat-up). Just treat it with the same distain and contempt as the United Nations!!! And just wait until the US re-arranges the economy with neo-liberal reforms! (Now that's something everyone will be jealous of : a new Iraqi health system modelled on the US one. Caprpetbaggers of the world unite! HOT NEWS : Rumor abroad that the Weapons of Mass Destruction have been secreted on the Crosby Channel!! Anyone with any info should contact their local ministery of WMD Anyone giving misleading or mischevious info will be given a plum job in the Central Command Centre in Qatar. Applicants must display an ability to read whatever is put in front of them and be proficient in obfuscation and doublespeak. All truthful and honest men and women need not apply . Guns will be supplied. Criminal record and an ability to spin good stories will be a definite advantage. Eric
Babs and others, if you want to see some Torch footage, plus hear the original theme song, go to the following website and click on "Torchy". "http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/" The fastest guy alive, I'd fly around the Universe In Fireball XL5 What are these strange enchantments that start Whenever you're near
Who swallowed a packet of seeds, great tufts of Grarrse, shot out of his botty and his testes were covered in Weeeeeeeeeeeds. cb-s. unlike my time at Morningside, I am still waiting for the snow and ice to uncover my weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds. sks
On a more interesting note, key Igbo's handle into Google. Seems he's out to get the world record "guest book entries" Fifty-five years ago this month. Begin at Begin and you shall look no further!! Al-Nakba
SADDAM DELIBERATELY GASSED THE KURDS, RIGHT? You can do-oo whatever you want And it's one of the rules That you don't go to schoo-ool And no-one ever says "no"... He's a clever walkie-talkie toy Press my switch, see my bulb start to gleam It's the most magic light you've ever seen. Any more favorite themes songs needed? There, that's cleared that up... instead of mindlessly cutting and pasting articles on subjects about which you apparently know nothing (otherwise you'd be writing your own stuff and not plagiarising that of others!) why don't you do what the grown-ups do and post a url. For those of you who don't know what I mean, Frog stole all this stuff from: http://www.americanfreepress.net/01_21_02/German_Spy_Says_U_S__Wrong/german_spy_says_u_s__wrong.html Bottom line is, you've won places on the list of nearly all the types I hate because a) you don't dare use your own name, which makes you a coward. b) you're a plagiarist, and that makes you a thief. c) you're a terrorist; you ram your (and more often, other peoples) opinions down our throats without asking if we want it.d) You're a sad loser; you're posting this stuff to the Crosby Channel, for chrissakes!!! look at the sort of posters TCC has. Most of them don't know there's a war on! MInd you, I suppose that you realise that if you were to go out and play "open debate" with the big boys on one of the fora where this is acceptable, you'd be gobbled to bits in seconds, so maybe TCC is what you can handle. Sad git. Or did Von Bulow train at Seaforth Barracks in the '50s?
The German newspaper, Der Tagesspiegel, recently interviewed Andreas von Bülow, the former head of the parliamentary commission that oversees the German secret services, about the terror attacks of Sept. 11.
Von Bülow, who was interviewed by AFP in early December, said the provocative Tagesspiegel interview, published on Jan. 13, was the first time the German press had asked him about the problems surrounding the attacks.
“The planning of the attacks was technically and organizationally a master achievement—to hijack four huge airplanes within a few minutes and within one hour, to drive them into their targets, with complicated flight maneuvers,” said von Bülow in the Tagesspiegel interview. “This is unthinkable, without years of support from state intelligence services.”
This led the interviewer to call von Bülow “a conspiracy theorist.”
“Yeah, yeah. That’s the ridicule from those who prefer to follow the official, politically correct line,” von Bülow responded. “Even investigative journalists are fed propaganda and disinformation. Anyone who doubts the official line is called crazy.”
Since Sept. 11, “public opinion is being forced into a direction that I consider wrong,” von Bülow said. “I wonder why so many questions have not been asked. Normally, with such a terrible event, various leads and trails appear and are discussed by the investigators, the media and the government: ‘Is there something here or not? Are the explanations plausible?’ In this case, that is not happening at all.”
Before a government goes to war, it must first establish who the enemy is, von Bülow said. “It has a duty to provide evidence.
According to its own admission, it has not been able to present any evidence that would hold up in court.
Concerning the video evidence, von Bülow said: “When one is dealing with intelligence services, one can imagine manipulations of the highest quality. Hollywood could provide these techniques. I consider the videos inappropriate as evidence.”
“There are 26 intelligence services in the U.S.A. with a budget of 0 billion, which were not able to prevent the attacks,” von Bülow said.
“Officially, there is nothing.” he told AFP. “They say that they didn’t have any idea that this would happen.”
While four planes had been hijacked “for more than 60 decisive minutes, the military and intelligence agencies kept the fighter plan
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 22 22:41:23 2003
Musta taken you hours to work your way down to that one! Oh well still several more hours to go to the end.....(keep him outa mischief eh?)
Babs <>
Chipmonkport, , , Tue Apr 22 22:31:40 2003
Hey Babs
This would have made a better picture...
http://www.southportforums.com/forums/babs/chipmonkbabs.jpg Everyone say "aaaahhh".
The Voice of (T)reason <>
Cultureville, , , Tue Apr 22 22:09:08 2003
Nope ~ shucks......
Babs <>
Still here, , , Tue Apr 22 18:13:32 2003
That should have shown a piccie ~ try again!
[IMG]http://www.southportforums.com/forums/babs/culture.gif[/IMG]
Babs <>
same plave, , , Tue Apr 22 18:12:38 2003
Vote for Liverpool!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/capitalofculture/?display=1
http://www.southportforums.com/forums/babs/culture.gif
Babs <>
Southport near Liverpool, , , Tue Apr 22 18:10:41 2003
Salty, Thanks. I had a goz at the BSC site. lo and behold! There's the original Tyrer One! Brings back memories of the times when Mr. Tyrer (Gerry) would take us kids out in his boat. There was always one under construction in his shed in the back garden. We would launch at the bottom of Holden Road when the tide was right. The best time to go sailing was when the tide was out because all the sandbanks were exposed. Went out to Burbo a few times,( Worshipful Mayor please note). The sand there was clean and golden. Cockles a plenty for the picking. Ponds would form that were suitable for swimming. The view from the banks was breathtaking. So would be the view of anyone who was watching us from the shore through a telescope as we sunbathed and ran around starkers for the fun of it. And no, the seagulls never pecked it off! Sometimes we had to run the gauntlet to get up the Alt when the rifle range was open. You could hear the 303's whizzing overhead. The red pennant would be flown as a warning. What's the name of the award that we were eligible for? DSO or something.
ffrank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, On Lake Ontario, , Sun Apr 20 02:45:39 2003
Thank you for imparting that information Mr Moyes.
I expect you are relieved the game wasn't on TV. Kind regards from the Champions League. Ker-ching!!
Andy Melia <>
Mayor, The old 1-2, Burbo, Sat Apr 19 17:13:47 2003
ffrank,the net nanny must have got it:
Salty <>
same as before, , , Sat Apr 19 14:11:58 2003
ffrank, you might try:
Salty K. Sam <>
Due South of TTO, , , Sat Apr 19 14:08:50 2003
The Fishermans Rest in Bikdale often footie and The Arion in Ainsdale but dunno about any closer to the Mayor's official des res though. By the way Mayor did you say you had some piccies from Brum?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Sat Apr 19 12:50:52 2003
Sorry Mr Mayor...... you and your entourage will have to rely on local radio stations. There is NO tv coverage of this game whatsoever! We'll probably get 90 secs on "The Premiership" tonight!!!!
Bizarre really, seein as this is the most important derby for 50 odd years and one that could see the Red S****s financial plans for the next 12 months in tatters as "the boy" tears them apart!
COME ON YOU BLUES !
David Moyes <>
GOOD PARK, , , Sat Apr 19 12:18:53 2003
Urgent Message. Does anyone know of a public house showing the Everton v Liverpool game this afternoon? One that would welcome the Mayor and his entourage?
Mayor <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Burbo-on-the-Kop, , , Sat Apr 19 07:40:25 2003
"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy not approved by the Jews. -- Sec. of State John Foster Dulles, Feb. 1957
I've never seen a President -- I don't care who he is -- stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don't have any idea what goes on.
Alek James Hidell <>
Crosby, , parallel universe #911, Sat Apr 19 02:10:05 2003
Bill,
Thanks for the rec re Common Dreams but I'm aready a regular reader of CD,Z Net et al.
mhughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Sat Apr 19 02:07:07 2003
Over here, if you go into a store to buy an insulated parka in the middle of Winter, you can't. That's because they (the storekeepers) already have their Spring/Summer clothing on display. Likewise, try to buy a golf shirt in the middle of Summer. Will a pullover do? (We actually call them sweaters). Now if I may be so bold as to divert the topic of discussion away from the timely Easter talk of Religion, Jews, Muslims, Fuhrers, Wars and other opinionated material and philosophical debate, I would like to re-open a recent subject of discussion.- The "Tyrer" Waterloo designed and built sailing dinghy. A member of the Tyrer family has been tracked down and will shortly add some postings to this site. We should all be thinking ahead.......to Summer, Sailing and the Brooke re-union.
FRANK <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
, Ontario, , Sat Apr 19 02:01:51 2003
Dear Mr. Hiddel, from what I discovered trawling through Google, you seem to be a porn-film director.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 18 22:38:11 2003
In referring to the declaration of war against Germany in 1917 by the United States,
Sir Winston Churchill said in an interview published in Scribner's Commentator in America in 1936:
Alek James Hidell <>
Crosby, , parallel universe #911, Fri Apr 18 16:07:21 2003
Just a demo of how it can be done...
Bill <`>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 18 12:35:57 2003
Talking about fundamentalist misery, is this temporal lobe epilepsy resonsible for people mindlessly cutting and pasting useless data onto TCC?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Fri Apr 18 11:29:05 2003
The mayor doesn't know the answer to the world's problems but apparantly (with a little help from a TV programme shown last night) he now knows the cause. It transpires that certain sufferers of temporal-lobe epilepsy experience religious hallucinations and/or revelations during seisures. Even if the sufferters are atheists. Could the divine visions of Moses, St Paul and others connected to Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Shintoism, Hinduism etc. etc. be the unwitting cause of so much fundamentalist misery throughout the world? Chew on that while chewing your Easter Egg. Down Bonnie!
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Mayor, The peaceful haven of Burbo, , Fri Apr 18 08:01:48 2003
Is anybody planning on attending the 60th anniversary of the BATTLE of THE ATLANTIC celebrations? The celebs for the 50th were really something. HRH an Phil were there on the Royal Yacht along with warships galore. Even the Russian Navy were there. The Russian warship was open to the public. Maybe we can get the Royal Navy to take care of this FUHRER guy in his rubber dinghy before he gets any ideas about invading BURBO...Andy (Worshipful Mayor), why don't you fly the Star of David over Burbo for a few days. ( In commemoration of Jaffa Orange week). Wonder how our Fuhrer friend would react to that.
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, CANADA, , Fri Apr 18 04:23:23 2003
Hey, who is this FUHRER guy who is using my e-mail address to post? You dumbkopf............I'll post my own messages and express my own opinions and ideas thank you!!!!
ffrank <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, CANADA, , Fri Apr 18 03:54:04 2003
One wonders if the Jew is the intellectual that is proclaimed. After all, they still practice male mutilation-for Religious purposes? ? ? ? In other countries we hear of thr barbaric practice of female mutilation by other races but we condemn that. Even in England, the Muslims get away with cruelty to animals in the name of religion. Instead of butchering an animal humanely so that it doesn't suffer unneccessary pain and terror, all they do is say a quick prayer to Allah before slitting the animal's throat. It's called Halal. The Jew does something similar but calls it Kosher. We unwittingly tolerate their wierd customs.
THE FUHRER <cfjm3@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, (Not St. Bede's), Fri Apr 18 03:50:22 2003
Zionism versus Bolshevism.
Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 8, 1920
THEY ARE STILL AT IT !!!! <>
, , , Fri Apr 18 02:15:06 2003
The Balfour Declaration represented the convinced policy of all parties in our country and also in America, but the launching of it in 1917 was due, as I have said, to propagandist reasons. I should like once more to remind the British public, who may be hesitating about the burdens of our Zionist Declaration to-day, of the actual war position at the time of that Declaration. We are now looking at the War through the dazzling glow of a triumphant end, but in 1917 the issue of the War was still very much in doubt. We were convinced - but not all of us - that we would pull through victoriously, but the Germans were equally persuaded that victory would rest on their banners, and they had much reason for coming to that conclusion. They had smashed the Roumanians. The Russian Army was completely demoralised by its numerous defeats. The French Army was exhausted and temporarily unequal to striking a great blow. The Italians had sustained a shattering defeat at Caporetto. The unlimited submarine campaign had sunk millions of tons of our shipping. There were no American divisions at the front, and when I say at the front, I mean available in the trenches. For the Allies there were two paramount problems at that time. The first was that the Central Powers should be broken by the blockade before our supplies of food and essential raw material were cut off by sinkings of our own ships. The other was that the war preparations in the United States should be speeded up to such an extent as to enable the Allies to be adequately reinforced in the critical campaign of 1918 by American troops. In the solution of these two problems, public opinion in Russia and America played a great part, and we had every reason at that time to believe that in both countries the friendliness or hostility of the Jewish race might make a considerable difference.
Thucydides <>
Crosby, Athens, Ancient Greece, Fri Apr 18 01:52:02 2003
As for the Rockingham connection, my old china...
the passport of Mohammed Atta that mysteriously survived the vaporization and demolition of the Twin Towers, to just flutter down to land face-up on a pile of rubble...or the Korans and Arab flight manuals helpfully left at the Airport carpark...or the Israeli spy-ring discovered in the *same street* in Venice, Florida where the "terrorists" lived, only to be deported -no questions asked- the subject deemed "classified"...or...or...or...or...or
Alek James Hidell <>
Crosby, , parallel universe #911, Fri Apr 18 01:30:15 2003
Eh?
Confused <>
, , , Fri Apr 18 01:21:11 2003
Lloyd George and Churchill both freely admitted the deal with the Zionists... and they have a lot to answer for
World War 2
The Cold War
The Palestinan Conflict
The next war...
Prisoner Number 7 <>
, , , Thu Apr 17 20:07:54 2003
Ah yes Fuhrer: St Bede's it was then.
Mayor <>
Burbo Bank Boot Camp, , , Thu Apr 17 16:16:45 2003
Dear Andy Melia, I attended HIGH School. (Borstal-on-the Hill).
Bill, B.B.B., ...Philosophical writings hold many keys.
For example,the Sepher Yezirah which is an ancient book on creation and the world's oldest philosophical writing in Hebrew. Translated into English by Dr. Isidor Kalisch.
My point which you may have overlooked in the previous posting was that the ancient philosophers held the keys of knowledge and power (knowledge IS power) as well as keys to the future.
We have abandoned what these philosophers and Ancients gave to us. Instead, Western society has immersed itself in all that the Ancients warned us against. It is modern day society that is living in primitive times as we have chosen to go backward rather than forward.
Take the belligerants in Northern Ireland. Catholics vs Protestants. In the Middle East it's Arab vs Jew.
Hitler said "Arbeit Macht Frei"- "Work will set you free". Manipulations of backward thinking religious leaders have bred terrorism and hatred which are negative forces. Can mankind not become more positive? Our life span is short. Can we not enjoy our short stay on this Earth?
Hitler's plan addressed these glaring problems.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu Apr 17 14:09:11 2003
"Reading the works of Socrates and "other philosophers" ... leads to enlightenment"
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 17 09:15:08 2003
Dear Fuhrer and Lord Rockingham, which schools in Crosby did you attend?
Andy Melia <>
Minister of Burbo Education, Six of the Best, , Thu Apr 17 08:17:11 2003
Anthony R., Reading the works of Socrates and other Philosophers is similar in a way to learning Latin. BINGO!!, the penny drops, the light goes on and all of a sudden you have learned several languages in one go. It's called enlightenment. Or if you like, being illuminated. Believing something, well, is meaningless since belief implies lack of knowledge....right?........And yes,it can be said and not denied that the Jew is skilfull at manipulation. The example that you gave as to how Israel manipulates America is right on. Just look at Hollywood movies. The Jew is always portrayed as the persecuted underdog...It's only natural that when our emotions are aroused, we cheer.......for the underdog - and are thus manipulated mentally. Jesus was not a Jew. He lived, like others, under Jewish law and was expected to toe the Jewish line. Jews had the knowledge and knowledge is power. To grow mushrooms you keep them in the dark and feed them s***. The mushrooms are happy because they don't know the difference.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu Apr 17 04:21:23 2003
The ancient-Greek philosopher Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of Truth can only begin once they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear...
Origins of the Second World War by AJP Taylor [explains why Hitler neither sought war nor started the war, and how Britain was not a "winner" of the war, but the loser - as Hitler had correctly predicted in 1925]
Read the warnings of Zionist defectors - these people know what they are talking about!
Benjamin Freedman [member of the Zionist delegation to Versailles, 1919, explains how the Zionists in Germany and Britain manipulated America into the First World War in exchange for Palestine, and the myth of the Holocaust]
Arthur Koestler [respected "Jewish" Austro-English philosopher, showed that the vast majority of today's "Jews" are not Jewish at all, and have absolutely no ethnic or historical right to the land of Palestine. His book "The Thirteenth Tribe" was suppressed, and he died in mysterious circumstances shorty afterwards]
Victor Ostrovsky [ex-Mossad agent, book "By Way of Decption" on how Israel manipulates America to do its bidding, especially in attacking Arabs/Muslims, by the use of "false flag" operations - 911 another example??]
Norman Finkelstein [calls for the shutting-down of the fraudulent "Holocaust industry", describing it as an extortion racket, most "holocaust survivors" are demonstrable liars/fantasists, and its use as a weapon to deflect valid criticism of Israel]
You get the general idea...most offical "historians" like Trevor-Roper(Lord Faker) and Bullock (b.o.l.l.o.c.k.s) are not true historians, but "offical" myth-makers or state-sponsored propagandists.
Anthony Rockingham <>
Crosby, Athens, Ancient Greece, Thu Apr 17 02:14:40 2003
To draw conclusions or a comparison between ADOLF HITLER and SADDAM HUSSEIN, consider the what if's.
For example if Hitler had won, the German sense of precision, law, order and discipline would prevail. All of Europe be crime free and clean. None of this present day mass migration that all of Britain is squawking about. All trash would be cleaned up in a hurry. What is lacking in this world today is discipline.
Had Saddam not been eradicated, death and fear would prevail. Fanatical religious leaders would be given the green light to exercise their backward ideals of intolerance, terrorism and trouble.
It's the English who have screwed up this world big time, as history will show you.
FUHRER <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Thu Apr 17 01:52:30 2003
Last posting incomlete
, Adelaide, Oz, Thu Apr 17 00:56:22 2003
Dear AF, It's interesting to note that half of the historians you recommend are very conservative to extreme right-wing: Lord Alan Bullock (read his book on Hitler many, many years ago, and if my memory serves me right--which is always a dangerous thing to say---I think Bullock may have glowingly endorsed Shirer's book on the back or front of the "The Rise and Fall...as essential reading for anyone wanting to understand the Nazi era ); Lord Trevor-Roper and David Irving. (Is Lord Trevor-Roper the very same historian who made such a damn fool of himself and his profession in authenticating the fake Hitler Diaries? If so, hardly a historian I would use as an example to bolster my argument).
, Adelaide, Oz, Thu Apr 17 00:35:22 2003
Mike Smith - Golden Ring coffee, eh? Yes, I remember that stuff (and you, of course old chap). Any more memories you care to share?
Phizynot <aph.uk@virgin.net>
Down South somewhere..., , , Wed Apr 16 21:28:25 2003
Malcolm of the many nom de guerre: William Shirer is old hat and his research, impressive at the time, does little to explain the nature of evil in the man at the centre of the events he describes. Consequently, and as you rightly point out, a read of it will not help draw historical analogies between Hussein and Hitler. That does not mean valid analogies do not exist. A read of more brilliant and controversial explainers of the Weimar and Reich era, ranging from Alan Bullock and Hugh Trevor-Roper to Daniel Goldhagen, George Steiner, Ron Rosenbaum and even David Irving might help you to discover some of these. History, of course, never looks like history when you are living through the chaos of it. What happened in the past to influence the present and cloud over the future is not what actually happened but what we think happened. Referrals to outdated scholarship doesn't help clarify matters at all at all. A Greek poet once chiselled: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing". Maybe the foxes posting on this Noticeboard who insist on relating historical irrelevancies that are not necessarily related, or relatable, will be altogether happier if and when Washington's hawks turn into hedgehogs, and the United States pulls up the Atlantic drawbridge and once again beats an orderly retreat into a policy of isolationism and nonengagement.
A.F. <cantabfellow@therange.com>
, , , Wed Apr 16 18:36:13 2003
Dear JJ, Just because Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler were both dictators and both pursued expansionist policies hardly constitutes an historical analogy which any decent historian would like to hang his/her hat upon.
malcolm hughes <mhughes@chariot.net .au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Wed Apr 16 13:55:46 2003
John, the answer to your question "If weapons of mass destruction are inherently immoral and evil, where does that leave France, the UK, the US, Russia, Israel, India and Pakistan, plus any nuclear lurkers out there?" has to be "morally bankrupt".
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 16 11:48:24 2003
Fear not jj. All this anti-"war" cynicism has been truly put to bed by a genuinely humanitarian story. I refer to "Injured Ali". Ali, a delightful little Iraqi boy whose mum and dad were blown to pieces...er "liberated" in front of his eyes by "coalition" bombing has become a cause celebre with the more popularist UK newspapers. Due to intense media presssure, Ali (who was dying, having inconveniently only being partly liberated of both his arms) has been airlifted to a Noo-friendly state for life-saving treatment. Not to miss a photo opportunity the "coalition" have been showing pictures of a happy, smiling Ali (minus mum, dad and arms) being treated to "civilized values". Makes you feel proud doesn't it?
Andy Melia <>
Noo World Disorder, , , Wed Apr 16 07:55:28 2003
Dear Malcolm, Welcome home!
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Wed Apr 16 01:56:23 2003
Dear Joe, no I'm not particularly obtuse, and if you read what I wrote on several occasions, I am actually against the rape of Iraq by the "coalition".
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 15 15:39:12 2003
Eh? I've never missed a Brooke re-union! I probably won't be there this year because of work commitments, but as I remember, I sat waiting for several hours for some gobby git (rhymes with...), who when push came to shove, didn't have the bottle to show up ;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Tue Apr 15 15:25:35 2003
Just listen to blue eyed billy going in for the kill with all his false bravado.
Several years ago he was not man enough to drop in to the Brookers - He was dropping brownies in his little pink bloomers at the thought of being a man - course what can one expect from a social worker --- you know ,resource sucking leaches.
A big man on the key board though, all fearless and full of fighting spirit.
Billy boy you are a fraud. ABW please call me MR. Mangler from now on.
The Mangler <bloodingutsenveinsentendons@ ripper.com.org.net>
Lower Liverpool, , Blair land, Tue Apr 15 14:42:16 2003
Well if there are three things I have learned about this ahem! "war'" (apart from the actual number of lucky Iraqi civilians who have been, splutter! "liberated" by being bombed to pieces) they are:
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
, , , Tue Apr 15 08:12:47 2003
Alleluya! JJ has finally trimmed Malcolm's sail, alleluya! So Malcolm row your boat ashore...."History!" roared the silver maned Senator indignantly.... " What's the matter with American history? American history is as good as any history in the world!" (Catch-22).
Kia Ora <downunder@waikikamukau.com>
The Sailing Club, Adelaide, , Tue Apr 15 05:48:27 2003
Dear JJ, I seem to have you at a disadvantage (that is you may be unsure to whom you are addressing with your posting.) And that would never do my sense of fair play.
Malcolm Hughes <mhughes@chariot.net.au>
, Adelaide, Oz, Tue Apr 15 04:06:08 2003
Ach so ! Ze name GOLDIE MEIR is mentioned on zis zite. She vas kicked out of Kanada back in ze sixties when on a "fundraising" mission.
She had the audacity to place a quota on Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg. Jews in each city were required to contribute money and meet the "quota". She was asked to get the H*** out of Kanada.
Jews in England do not have the same rights as the Brits. This is an old law that is still on the books. Something to do with the fact that they owe their allegiance to Israel and not Britain. Akin to the Henry V111 vs the Pope issue.
Fuhrer <yourfuhrer@hotmail.com>
, Eagle's Nest, , Tue Apr 15 03:36:26 2003
dear mr crompton, Are you obtuse by nature or is there something else we should be told?
joe public <joe public@large>
, , , Tue Apr 15 03:12:03 2003
Dear Starr, I didn't catch the 1939 connexion in relation to my posts there at all. Even so, it's hardly a stretch to see that, had there been no 1939, then there would have been no holocaust and by extension, no Israel emerging in 1948. This fact of life today works to keep the fires of emergent Arab nationalism and multiple regional hates well fuelled. That aspect was not lost on any of the richer states who, at the outset could have taken in the relatively fewer (than now) Palestinian refugees but chose to let them fester in camps. But again, would you have taken in the refugees, had you had the what with in spades? Or indeed, should you have at all at all? And does Israel actually serve the Jewish cause? Or not. And, if not, what cause does it serve? Shame about that 1939 business. All in all. I mean, dammit all, couldn't they have just kinda gone straight on to 1940 for a change?
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Tue Apr 15 03:05:58 2003
I blame the bloody Big Bang for the lot of it. The trouble it caused... Really, the events of 1919 are no more related to what is happening now than was a yak farmer turning left instead of right one summer's day in 453. I'm all for the war-sceptics' arguments, but they're just not very well put. Although I have to say, the ones on this noticeboard are far and away more cogent than the ones on the streets of Leeds over the past two months: "1, 2, 3, 4, / We don't want no f****** war!". Yeah, that's a good argument. That's really grown up. So, Versailles and yak farmers aside, more power to you.
1,2,3,4 <>
Waterloo, , , Tue Apr 15 00:32:40 2003
To answer the qustion put by Mr. Starr, "those who cannot learn from history are condemned to repeat it".
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 14 23:53:09 2003
"Impetuous youth" would probably be the most accurate description of me. But, as usual you haven't answered any of the questions put. Gutless gobshi'ite.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 14 23:44:48 2003
Dear JJ: Your postings have all the style and accruacy of a scud missile: a lot of pent up energy but way off target!
E Starr <EStarr@war...what is it good for...>
, , , Mon Apr 14 23:10:46 2003
Dear Wer bin ich anyway? Excuse my slipshodship there. It should of course read, "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen die Götter selbst, vergebens."
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Apr 14 19:05:22 2003
Dear 'ashamed of who I am' peace activist old chap, Have a go at seeing the difference between a peacemaker and a pacifist and look at the consequences of 'peace at any price'. And brush up your German by translating a saying of theirs, "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen die Gótter selbst, vergebens."
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Mon Apr 14 19:01:24 2003
Hey look who I just found on whirlygig ~Sheriff Tex Tucker,his dog, Dusty, and his horse, Rocky.
babs <>
Four Feather Falls, , , Mon Apr 14 18:20:18 2003
Phoar Bill ~ I love it when you get angry! I've saved the whirlygig url to me favourites and return to Topsy Turvey land everytime one of these idjuts spout their idjutsies. Did they name that pond down the bottom of South Road after Marina?
Babs <>
Southport, , , Mon Apr 14 18:04:16 2003
I think you have a bloody cheek to address me by my name when we haven't been introduced. It all comes back to my statement some weeks ago that I consider that those who carry out attacks on, or are critical of, others but dare not use their own names to be the true cowards. So until YOU use your real name, you may refer to me as "Mr. Crompton"!
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 14 17:10:02 2003
JJ
Sorry that there was a misprint in the last message, 'peace activist' should have read COWARD!!
The editor
proud <of>
the, troops, , Mon Apr 14 16:32:18 2003
Dear JJ: Hello.
a peace activist <La Internationale@......>
, , The World, Mon Apr 14 15:55:40 2003
What the heck's John Donne doing here? I haven't been on this noticeboard for a while, and I come back to find John Donne pitching up? I had occasion to have to answer an exam question about John Donne not so long ago. Not being the biggest fan of John, I hadn't actually read any of his poems. I had, instead, spent an afternoon reading a York Notes guide to John's missives, turned up at the exam, got a First. Apropos of nothing, but John Donne is a wretchedly dull poet, and so generically non-unique that I could get a First by simply guessing things. John, hush.
The Ghost of Gordon Solie <>
Waterloo, , , Mon Apr 14 09:51:51 2003
Marina was indeed hot, Bill. Although I found her acting a little wooden.
Andy Melia <andy.melia@btinternet.com>
Noo World Disorder, Burbo Bank, , Mon Apr 14 08:03:54 2003
;)
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
amsterdam, , , Mon Apr 14 01:29:18 2003
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Apr 13 22:56:37 2003
Dear Alex, I think you’re getting a bit out of your depth if you think you have the slightest idea of what I may like and I think you’re being perversely presumptuous to assume that I or anyone else whom you don’t know at all at all would be happy to see an outbreak of armed conflict in his back yard. Who are you to be coming across with this self-righteous faeces? And, more to the point, how come we haven’t heard about your position on the firing squad executions of three Cubans by their regime this week? Or the draconian, decades-long sentences handed out to dissidents, also this week, merely for being dissidents? I my experience, this kind of cant and rant is firmly anchored in a foundation of ignorance, bitterness and mental lethargy.
jj <etc>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Apr 13 22:55:35 2003
Dear Bill: Inter alia,je suis Francois Marie Arouet.
Alexander 4 <Alex@the man in the iron mask>
, , , Sun Apr 13 14:43:24 2003
The problem is, John, that you haven't made any previous posts, so I do not know to what you refer.
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
amsterdam, , , Sun Apr 13 12:37:04 2003
Although my previous three posting may have been slighty humorous, the death, destruction and horror inflicted on the Iraqi people is mindboggling.
John Donne <John@no man is an island.....>
, , , Sun Apr 13 04:26:46 2003
Dear Eric,
Your enviable evenhandedness would be even more manifest were you to inlcude the facts of Cuban retalliation this week, by firing squad, against three people whose only crime was to want desperately to get out. One was twenty one years old. Unlike the Iraqi regime of terror, no one died during the incident itself. It was straightforward: they tried and failed. The rest of the few who were courageous enough to try doing what you can by going over to Speke for a plane, were given prison terms of decades. The trials and appeals were all over in three days. That would get the equally repugnant facts of the decades-long prison terms doled out to other dissidents this week off the front page quick enoungh. If you would make cases for causes, then bolster your evenhandedness rating thus to give more punch to your particulars. Happy Holy Week.
jj <jj>
etc, etc, etc, Sun Apr 13 03:45:32 2003
HOT NEWS: Mayor of Burbo Bank sighted swimming in River Mersey.
maxwell smart <maxwll@smart thinking>
, , , Sun Apr 13 03:38:17 2003
HOT NEWS: US special forces scouring Crosby/Waterloo area looking for Mayor of Burbo Bank to question him about WMS.
clark kent <clark@daily globe>
, , , Sun Apr 13 03:27:01 2003
Nice to see the US/Anglo forces are protecting THEIR property in Iraq-the Oil Ministery--while the rest of the country descends into anarchy.
Eric Blair <1984 @haven't I seen all this before!>
, , , Sun Apr 13 02:55:54 2003
Derek, If I win the $30,000,000.00 SUPER-7 lottery jackpot tonight, we can charter the CONCORDE and bring the Crosby lot over for the BBQ/Re-union. And next year we will call it the "International Crosby Re-union". Places like Venezuela, Australia, Holland, New Zealand, U.S.A. and Southport can bid to host future re-unions. (I hear that CONCORDE is, sadly, being pulled from service). Derek, don't forget to call Molson and Labatt Breweries to let them know about our plans for a Crosby re-union so that they can add an extra shift a week prior.
frank <fcardwell@hotmail.com>
TORONTO, , , Sat Apr 12 02:12:59 2003
It may not be the Brooke but a good time is guaranteed all the same. The 1st one was a great success so if you are interested in joining the 2nd Toronto Crosby Reunion bash sometime this summer (we're thinking BBQ) and you have not heard from me already then send me an e-mail. I will coordinate to find the best date for maximum attendance and fun. Look forward to hearing from you - yes you.
Regards, Derek
Derek Hilson <derek.hilson@rogers.com>
Thornhill, Ontario, Canada, Sat Apr 12 00:23:09 2003
John, if you're the egg man I'm a walrus!
Lenin <fab@four.com>
, , , Fri Apr 11 10:03:02 2003
A warning from Downing Street. The theme tune "Torchy the Battery Boy" has not been approved by this office for my client, Mr Tory Blair. For a kick-off, it is not sung in an American accent. And that anti-Noo so called Mayor of Burbo Bank's gonna git his a*s kicked.
Alaistar Campbell <>
Spin Office, Downing Street, Noo Britain, Fri Apr 11 09:51:02 2003
Oops sorry, try again
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 10 22:01:13 2003
Babs and others, if you want to see some Torch footage, plus hear the original theme song, go to the following website and click on "Torchy".
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Thu Apr 10 22:00:12 2003
Hey Tony is he any relation to Johnny?
Babs <>
Toytown, , , Thu Apr 10 21:39:23 2003
tony hennessy
if you see this please contact me
re- corrie road school and steaming hot cups of golden ring coffee
best wishes
mike smith
mike smith <mike@squirrel-net.co.uk>
brighton-le-sands, liverpool, uk, Thu Apr 10 21:12:25 2003
tony hennessy
if you see this please contact me
re- corrie road school and steaming hot cups of golden ring coffee
best wishes
mike smith
mike smith <mike@squrrel-net.co.uk>
brighton-le-sands, liverpool, uk, Thu Apr 10 21:10:36 2003
I used to be the egg man.
John <>
, Liverpool, , Thu Apr 10 20:24:44 2003
I wish I was a spaceman
Old Songs <never die>
, , , Thu Apr 10 12:13:38 2003
Marina, aqua Marina,
Old Songs <never die>
, , , Thu Apr 10 12:11:42 2003
On ow er waaaay 'ome !
Robert The Robot <Zodiac@fireballxl5>
Hodgetown, Space City, , Thu Apr 10 11:19:24 2003
There was a young man from Leeds,
Claude Balls-Smythe <>
Bludellsahhnds, , , Wed Apr 9 22:38:52 2003
Babs,
Salty <>
Unmentionable, , , Wed Apr 9 19:08:28 2003
weeeeeeeeeeeeed
Babs <>
Garden, , , Wed Apr 9 16:51:24 2003
Flob a lob.
Mayor <>
Springtime at Burbo, , , Wed Apr 9 16:48:31 2003
Yes, generous chaps these West Africans Bill. I am presently waiting for several million guineas from them. What with the price of gunpowder these days every little helps.
Yug
Yug Sekwaf <Hung@drawnquarters>
, , , Wed Apr 9 12:09:02 2003
Don't encourage him, Yug, before you know where you are, you'll be getting e-mails telling you he is the son of the former ruler of Togo, and he'll make you rich; all you'll need to do is pay a few small death duties up front. Don't want you fawking out your hard-earned pennies for nothing...
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Wed Apr 9 03:07:24 2003
Couldn't agree more, Ig old chap. Guys are treated far too harshly, especially in Autumn, and people should keep off.I mean, what did grass ever do to deserve special notices?
Yug
Yug Sekwaf <Gun@powderplot>
Tower, Oflondon, , Tue Apr 8 14:39:19 2003
keep off guys
igbokwenu <igbokwe@yahoo.com>
lome, lome, togo, Tue Apr 8 12:04:01 2003
And your point is, Frog?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, , , Tue Apr 8 08:31:16 2003
Remeber Deir Yassim.
Al-Nakba <Al-Nakba@diaspora>
Deir Yassin, , Palestine, Tue Apr 8 05:30:44 2003
WAKE UP!! WE ARE BEING CONNED!!
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (iv)
ISRAEL IS AN ALLY, RIGHT? (v)
Thucydides, the Athenian historian, wrote in his account of the
Peloponnesian War, "The way that most men deal with traditions, even
traditions of their own country, is to receive them all alike as they
are delivered, without applying any critical test whatever. So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation
of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand."
THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Tue Apr 8 01:24:19 2003
Which Venezuelan coup? What effect does it have on the price of coffee in South Road?
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 7 21:11:14 2003
In Topsy Turvy land
Old Songs <>
never die, , , Mon Apr 7 21:05:55 2003
War? What war? Venezuelan coup? Is JJ OK? Torchy, Torchy the Battery Boy,He's a clever walkie-talkie toy....... Topsy Turvey Land ~ sigh.....
Babs <>
Southport, , , Mon Apr 7 18:59:10 2003
A war you say, young William? Will the damned Boche never learn?
JB
John Burns <Jonb4'aol.com>
Home, , , Mon Apr 7 18:14:18 2003
Torchy, Torchy the Battery Boy
Old Songs <>
never die, , , Mon Apr 7 15:17:44 2003
BABS!!!! Torchy The Battery Boy???!!! My hero too, second only to Twizzle - Gerry & Silvia Anderson's earliest creations, y'know. I always knew that you had inate good taste and sense! Love,
John Hodge <john@plazacinema.org.uk>
Brighton-Le-Sands, , , Mon Apr 7 14:34:52 2003
Keep boilng froggy, makes cents to me - mommy
Billy's Ma <>
Grace St. Gladstone Dock, , , Mon Apr 7 14:09:59 2003
THERE WAS NO VENEZUELAN COUP, RIGHT?
THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 13:51:48 2003
FROG YOU ARE A BIGGER FASCIST THAN BUSH, AND A BIGGER TERRORIST THAN BIN LADEN!!!
Bill <blue-eyes@buddhist.com>
, Amsterdam, , Mon Apr 7 12:56:17 2003
WAKE UP!!! WE ARE BEING CONNED!!!
THE BOILING FROG <>
, , , Mon Apr 7 02:32:17 2003
Von Bülow, who controlled the budgets of German intelligence from 1969 to 1994, cannot understand why Congress has not opened a formal investigation into the attacks and the failure of American intelligence agencies to prevent them.